Emergency rudder/Windvane vs ladder?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

Out of interest Jim do you have any pics of that set-up? Seems like a great idea, and the steps sound similar to the external adaptations they used to do on faster multihulls with transom mounted rudders to reduce an apparent tendency to suck air down at speed and stall the rudder.
Did you think it was a success, or anything you would change (I gather you haven't done the same for your current boat)?

Nope, no pix (which I regret)... we sold that boat 17 years ago and the new owner promptly took it all off and binned it because he knew better. Idiot...

But the steps were simple enough, just the standard molded plastic "transom steps" as sold by Worst Marine in Alameda. IIRC there were two on the starboard side and one on the port side, staggered at reasonable spacing. From the top step it was easy to step onto the mounting hardware and thence to the afterdeck. Never had issues with the rudder ventilating, but then this was on a 36 ft monohull (early IOR one-tonner) and speeds were limited to < 10 knots except when surfing BIG waves, and the vane wasn't steering then!

I felt that the design was pretty successful. It steered the boat for around 60,000 of the 86,000 we logged in her (WAG... we didn't make notes when we shifted from vane to a/p or manual steering). There were a couple of failures along the way: one pintle sheared after about 30,000 miles, one of the s/s straps securing the gudgeon to the blade failed some time later, and the 3 inch thick marine ply blade broke off during a knockdown in a violent storm. While each event earned a lot of vile language, I reckon that was decent reliability for a home designed and built device.

When we changed to our present boat I might well have built another one, but being full time cruising in foreign waters I no longer had access to the elaborate shop facilities of the lab where I used to work. This removed the fiscal advantage of DIY, and the deep sugar scoop transom on Insatiable II makes a difficult platform to design to. But I sure miss having the vane!

Jim

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by geoff3nebel

I have a 41’ westerly oceanlord with a center mounted boarding ladder. I fitted a Hydrovane 12” off-center and it steers perfectly when heeled on port or starboard tack. The Hydrovane’s rudder is very deep and only marginally shorter than the Oceanlord’s balanced rudder.

My ladder has always been slightly offset....
Also.. some time after these shots were taken I extended the ladder by about 2 feet.

As built and as shown it only extended to the waters edge... OK for getting out of a dinghy.. not so good for getting out of the water... much better now.

Agree with what has been said about boarding amidships...

[Michael Cobbe]

Originally Posted by GTom

I want to mount a windvane, which also serve as emergency rudder. My problem is:



Does a Monitor or Aries have to be mounted in the center? I am afraid so, because it wouldn't make much use if heeling the "wrong way"...

Hydrovanes can be offet and when long distance sailing, over 10,000 nms, it was the vane I saw most.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Ramona

Not sure why there is all this guff about emergency rudders. How many failures are there?

As a percentage, not many. How many people get flat tires (tyres for my friends across the pond. Down under too?)? Not many. I haven't had a flat in decades, yet I still carry a spare. I suspect that as a percentage more boats are lost due to a loss of steering than there are people who need a spare.

[nwdiver]

The easy solution, move the ladder to the side of the boat............as pointed out above you really don’t have to come over the stern, easier to move or replace the ladder than deal with offsetting the windvane......my issue was windvane and solar arch.....

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY

As a percentage, not many. How many people get flat tires (tyres for my friends across the pond. Down under too?)? Not many. I haven't had a flat in decades, yet I still carry a spare. I suspect that as a percentage more boats are lost due to a loss of steering than there are people who need a spare.

One thing to consider when you are relying on the windvane aa a backup rudder; the same thing that takes out your main rudder might also do a job on your windvane.

[alctel]

I got rid of my stern ladder and installed a pulldown side ladder

[Dennisvj]

I installed a Hydrovane on my boat with a transom hung rudder, so had to offset it. I experienced no problems whatsoever on either tack sailing from Panama to French Polynesia to Alaska. And having the emergency rudder was comforting.

[moseriw]

a good emergency steering is a sea anchor!

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by moseriw

a good emergency steering is a sea anchor!

I suspect you mean a drogue that will enable the boat to continue to make way before the wind.

Never deploy a sea anchor off the stern.

[maersi]

It seemed to me that it was important to have the servo oar as close to the centre line as possible. I don't have any figures, it was just an assumption. If the servo is offset, then when significantly heeled,it will be deep in the water on one tack, and partially our of the water on the other. It may well still function, but must generate less power. Perhaps the reduction in power does not have an impact, but my preference was not to find out. I chose to move the ladder.
The picture is my Aires lift up with a non standard mounting.

https://ibb.co/w4BygYc
The offset ladder has an unforseen advantage. When boarding, the pushpit rail provides a strong handhold above the ladder, giving additional security.

[Iains boatyard]

Originally Posted by Whosails

I also have been thinking about this. In the past I travelled over 1,000 miles with a Windpilot. We boarded on the starboard side of the boat. Now I have the same problem with a new to me Wauquiez. If you move the ladder you run into the problem of the Stern pulpit in the way of boarding the boat. Also the vane. I am going to remove the ladder which we don’t use anyway. We still board on the starboard side. I drag a 50’ floating line with knots offshore.

Think about the logistics of falling over the side popping up not being disorientated or in a state of panic to see and grab a floating line travelling at say 5 knots and having the strength to grab it hold on and then try and pull,your body weight towards the boat or hang on until the boat is stopped turned around
Good luck with that theory.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Iains boatyard

Think about the logistics of falling over the side popping up not being disorientated or in a state of panic to see and grab a floating line travelling at say 5 knots and having the strength to grab it hold on and then try and pull,your body weight towards the boat or hang on until the boat is stopped turned around
Good luck with that theory.

You are certainly right about it being difficult. On the other hand, it is probably better than floating away from your boat. Keep in mind that we don't know how or where he is sailing and who, if anyone, he is sailing with.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Iains boatyard

Think about the logistics of falling over the side popping up not being disorientated or in a state of panic to see and grab a floating line travelling at say 5 knots and having the strength to grab it hold on and then try and pull,your body weight towards the boat or hang on until the boat is stopped turned around
Good luck with that theory.

At 6kts you'd have 5 seconds to grab a 50ft line.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by Paul L

At 6kts you'd have 5 seconds to grab a 50ft line.

It certainly isn't a lot of time. I still think it is better than no time if there were no line available to grab. Certainly, it is more helpful if there are crew to help you get back on board, but something is better than nothing.

This sort of reminds me of the sailors who, when sailing in the high latitudes would forego a life preserver with the theory that one wold be dead by the time one was found, so why bother. Personally, I would rather have the option than not have the option, but each person has to make their own choices.