LIFERAFTS -- Delayed Inspections

[Douglas McLean]

Greetings cruisers,

Does anyone have advice regarding delayed inspection of liferafts? I have a six-person Revere Offshore Elite in a fiberglass canister on deck, purchased in 2010, last serviced in 2013, recommended service intervals of three years. The last inspection was done by a reputable, Revere authorized company in Ft. Lauderdale. I am in Ecuador, heading for New Zealand, and getting it serviced in Tahiti or New Zealand will mean 4 + years since the last service.

Is four or five years since the last inspection a) probably OK, b) a bad idea, c) really dumb.? The raft has never been subjected to freezing conditions, but it has been on deck in the tropics.

Cheers,
Douglas McLean
s/v Gillean -- In Transit

[DotDun]

I would say 'OK'. Unless you've had water intrusion into the case or a cylinder leak, there is no material degradation.

But, if it's broken now, you won't have a liferaft for your crossing.

[Suijin]

You're essentially asking us if you'll be fine not having it inspected, and to quantify the degree of risk. We can't do that.

You need to decide what level of risk you're willing to accept. It's past it's inspection date, so logically your confidence in it's serviceability should start to decline.

If you want to have full confidence in it, have it inspected. If you can live with some degree of risk, then don't. It's "probably" OK, if you can live with probably.

[UNCIVILIZED]

I concur with what's already been said. Though perhaps you're fishing for a former liferaft re-pack technician's opinion on this to assuage your already present doubts?
Regardless, perhaps you have video or pics taken of the raft during the last inspection to ease your mind a bit based on it's condition then? And again, to be clear, the pics & video would be for your peace of mind, not to show to us.

Which, perhaps all of us would benefit from having such footage of our own final emergency response tool. For quite similar reasons.


EDIT: If it's currently in a hard container (or valise for that matter), could you not inspect it yourself. To possibly even include inflating it manually (meaning without jets of freezing cold compressed gasses). And then pack it into a soft valise, until you reach the stated repacking station? Assuming that is that they would still repack it into it's original container if you do so.
Which, I'm curious to hear if they would, if in fact you ask them about such an option.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Douglas McLean

Greetings cruisers,

Does anyone have advice regarding delayed inspection of liferafts? I have a six-person Revere Offshore Elite in a fiberglass canister on deck, purchased in 2010, last serviced in 2013, recommended service intervals of three years. The last inspection was done by a reputable, Revere authorized company in Ft. Lauderdale. I am in Ecuador, heading for New Zealand, and getting it serviced in Tahiti or New Zealand will mean 4 + years since the last service.

Is four or five years since the last inspection a) probably OK, b) a bad idea, c) really dumb.? The raft has never been subjected to freezing conditions, but it has been on deck in the tropics.

Cheers,
Douglas McLean
s/v Gillean -- In Transit

Doug--

We have recently had our own Revere Raft recertified by Solution One Maritime in Tampa, Florida. I attended the check-out at the suggestion of the technician who pointed out our raft's features, where gear was stored and how some of it could/should be used. During the process he explained that inflation of the raft was less a concern than was the condition of the gas cylinder actuating mechanism and the expiration date of the stores--batteries in the automatic lights, flares and the like which do expire and do need be replaced periodically to ensure their reliability (to the extent possible). Having said that, it has been our experience that "expired flares" continue to function perfectly for several years past their expiration date. And, batteries last for many years so long as they are protected from moisture penetration. With that, you could likely get by without a re-check for awhile so long as the water-tight integrity of your canister has not be compromised and/or, if your raft is "vacuum" packed within the canister. On the other hand, if there is a Revere station in your locale, in your shoes I'd have the raft examined and restocked even though it might not "absolutely" be necessary in the short term. I say that not because I'm a "worry wort" but because, where the yacht is concerned, we believe that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

N'any case, it might be better for you to discuss the matter with a good Revere technician. For that I suggest you contact Maureen Evans of Solution One. Her email address is: mevans@solutiononemaritime.com

FWIW...

[robert sailor]

In my experience other than batteries flares etc it's all about the gas filling mechanism. Your raft might have been kept perfectly dry from the sea and rain but its stored out doors so if you have been in weather that has been hot during the day with cooler nights you can have condensation inside the raft which can corrode the metal in the filling mechanism and prevent it from firing. A raft stored below out of the direct sun and heat cycles will tend to last longer. Personally my bet would be that all will be fine but that's a personal decision you'll have to make.

[Noisykate]

Liferafts - ha. Our salutary tale.....
I wrote this up for our UK Cruising Association. A bit long, but there was a lot to cover!

Our Life-raft Story
We bought our boat, an elderly but well-maintained and ‘ready to go’ 42’ Moody ketch, two years ago, and she came complete with just about everything, including a liferaft, with an in-date service sticker on it from a so called “reputable” company – let’s just call them NFG for short.
We sailed all summer, to the Baltic and back across the North Sea, with the liferaft, covering about 2000 miles.
After overwintering in Ipswich after our Baltic summer, the liferaft was coming up for its service date, so we took it to Suffolk Marine Safety (SMS), and took up their offer to watch while the thing was inflated, so we could see what was inside, and how everything worked. We placed the liferaft in the middle of their workshop floor, and the SMS technician pulled the cord.
Nothing happened. He tried again, and still nothing happened.
He cut the straps to open the box, noting in passing that the straps were the wrong type, and may have been the wrong breaking strain for the box to open ‘automatically’ by bursting apart as the raft inflated.
On opening the box by hand, it was clear that the automatic inflation cord was tangled around the raft, not stored neatly flaked in the cylinder provided, and stood absolutely no chance of inflating the raft from within the box, had it been deployed ‘in anger’.
The tale of woe continues.
The fibreglass box had cracked and been repaired, not particularly well, and had been leaking rainwater and spray onto the liferaft inside. The raft, still sitting in its ‘vacuum pack’, was clearly wet inside the bag, and had been sitting in water for some time.
Once untangled, the cord was pulled again, with the raft now free to inflate – it did so, and started to take on the reassuring shape of a usable liferaft, when the SMS technician had to step in quickly to deflate it again. The top tube of the main raft was bursting out of the casing, because the raft had been packed away with the top tube zip not done up. If we had needed the liferaft, and had managed to overcome the other problems to get the thing to inflate, there is every chance it would have self-destructed, ripping the inner tube on the zip or just bursting the inner tube as the automatic inflation continued without reaching the preset pressure at which the inflation mechanism considers the raft is ‘full’, as there was effectively no outer casing to contain it.
The zip now done up, the SMS technician was able to pump the raft up, using the workshop air supply, to show us the fully inflated raft.
The bag of bits inside was now pulled out for us to have a look at – paddle, sea anchor, water pouches, biscuits, flares – all present and more or less correct for this specification of raft. Oh yes, except some of the seasickness pills, some of the torch batteries and a couple of other things were out of date. Not hugely so, and had we needed them they would ‘probably’ have been ok – although without a properly inflated liferaft under them, the dates on things inside was pretty irrelevant.
All in all, a very sobering experience. We had been sailing for an entire season, including two North Sea crossings, with a liferaft which would not have worked if we had needed it.
We rang the company who had done the previous service, and recited our tale of woe. Their response was firstly to question who had done the service for us, and secondly had we ever let the thing out of our sight so they (SMS) could have ‘fiddled’ with it. These questions answered, their only response was – quoting exactly – ‘oh, well, yeah, we’ve had trouble with that company (ie SMS) before’. What??
When pressed on the various issues, they continued to deny any responsibility or even interest, dismissing all the problems we had found as being the result of “somebody” having “played” with the raft, taking it out of the box and putting it in water, and then repacking it. Because you see that all the time, don’t you, people playing with their liferafts and then repacking them wrong, with out of date stuff inside?
We rang several sailing organisations, including (from memory, as far as I can recall), the Maritime and Coastguard Agency and the RYA, and were advised roughly as follows:
• We have NO contractual relationship with NFG Raft Servicing company as we did not pay their original bill, and therefore cannot ‘sue’ them for ‘breach of contract’ in failing to provide a competent service.
• We have not ‘suffered any loss’ from their negligence or incompetence. Had we drowned, and then been able to prove it was the fault of their negligence that we had done so, then we might have had a case against them. How wonderfully reassuring.
• There is no regulatory requirement for ‘leisure’ liferafts to be serviced by a properly trained or competent individual.
If anyone out there knows better, we would be delighted to hear from you.
We have been left absolutely horrified that:
(a) we had been relying on a fundamental piece of safety equipment, which would have failed had we needed it; and
(b) Nobody seems to care!
NFG raft servicing company is, apparently, properly registered for servicing certain “professional” life rafts (ie for commercial boats), but is NOT trained or approved for ‘leisure’ rafts, and certainly not by or for Plastimo (ie for our particular raft). We can only assume, from the comments they made to us, that they consider leisure users as second class citizens, for whom a liferaft is merely a fashion accessory and not essential safety equipment for which they may be called to account. The other alternative is that they are merely incompetent, and their work on ALL liferafts must be considered suspect.
Suffolk Marine Safety completed the servicing of our raft, and having met the technician who did the work for us, we are happy that the raft would now work if needed, and is good for another three years; it is packed properly in the right bag, the right box, with the right straps, and in-date ‘consumables’. We would recommend SMS to anyone, and would happily use them again.
We advise anyone we speak to NOT to use NFG.
We have talked over the whole sorry tale with various boating friends, and have not reached any useful conclusions, but all have shared our shock at finding that it is not enough simply to look at the date on a raft and assume that an official ‘stamp’ means all is well.
In summary, the problems found were as follows:
• Straps binding the box were not correct type – breaking strain unknown, may not have allowed inflating raft to break out of box;
• Box damaged, and repaired – may have failed to burst straps, instead allowing raft to herniate out of broken case, tearing raft in the process;
• Box wet inside, indicating box was not watertight where repairs to box were inadequate;
• Raft wrongly orientated in box, not stowed with pull cord nearest cord exit;
• Raft packed in wrong bag, ie not approved Plastimo vacuum bag;
• Pull cord tangled around raft, and not correctly flaked in protective tube;
• Main zip not done up on raft – raft could have ruptured, had we ever been able to inflate it;
• Items inside – some out of date.
Taken individually, it is not entirely clear which of these issues was the potential killer, but overall the evidence was indisputable: our liferaft, as packed and serviced by NFG, would not have worked if we had needed it.
What have we learned, and what could or should we have done differently to have avoided spending an entire summer with no working liferaft?
• When your raft needs servicing, go to a company which has been properly trained and approved by the manufacturer for servicing the type of raft you have. They are not all the same.
• Be there to watch when they open it up. You will learn a lot. If they do not allow this, take your raft somewhere else.
• If we bought another second-hand boat now, with a liferaft on it, we would have to assume that the raft needed a service immediately, and would watch while at least some of this work was done – meeting the technician, and becoming a ‘real’ person to him/her, feels like it ought to help. Watching the thing being inflated is, in any event, a useful thing to do if you ever have the chance.
• Check regularly that your raft is still safely packed – check that the straps are the originals, unbroken, still done up, and that the box is still intact. SMS told us a horror story about opening a box and finding that there was no raft in it – it had been stolen!
• We carry an Optimist sailing dinghy, and an inflatable dinghy as well – we would throw all these in the water if we needed to get off the boat, although of course these are not a replacement for a working liferaft.
• Should there be better regulation of liferaft servicing? We think so.
So – Liferafts. Would YOURS work if you needed it? Are you sure?
Mike Chamberlin and Catherine Day, ‘Kealoha V’.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Suijin

You're essentially asking us if you'll be fine not having it inspected, and to quantify the degree of risk. We can't do that.

You need to decide what level of risk you're willing to accept. It's past it's inspection date, so logically your confidence in it's serviceability should start to decline.

If you want to have full confidence in it, have it inspected. If you can live with some degree of risk, then don't. It's "probably" OK, if you can live with probably.

Exactly. We as strangers cannot quantify the nature of your risk, nor can we estimate your tolerance for it. An example here is that I've replaced an engine in the last few years. I filled my (clean) keel tanks with good diesel in 2008. I put in a FilterBOSS and closely examined the diesel before attempting to use it. All seems fine. But I'm in a big city with access to road-grade diesel in the form of a jerry can and the means, in 10 minutes or less, to MacGyver a solution. My perceived risk in using up so-called "old" diesel seems manageable to me. It is not, however, the risk I would take going from Panama to the Marquesas. For that, I would have the old diesel removed and given to a man with a tractor, have the tanks properly made sparkling, have a box of filters and gaskets, have every hose clamp doubled and dogged down, and have as fresh diesel as I could source filled up as far as I could. Then I would add ten five-gallon jerry cans either side of the cabin house of the same good stuff.

But that's because I wouldn't want to have a gummed fuel system where I couldn't easily fix it. You might be a stronger swimmer than me.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Noisykate

Liferafts - ha. Our salutary tale.....
I wrote this up for our UK Cruising Association. A bit long, but there was a lot to cover!

Our Life-raft Story
We bought our boat, an elderly but well-maintained and ‘ready to go’ 42’ Moody ketch, two years ago, and she came complete with just about everything, including a liferaft, with an in-date service sticker on it from a so called “reputable” company – let’s just call them NFG for short.
We sailed all summer, to the Baltic and back across the North Sea, with the liferaft, covering about 2000 miles.
After overwintering in Ipswich after our Baltic summer, the liferaft was coming up for its service date, so we took it to Suffolk Marine Safety (SMS), and took up their offer to watch while the thing was inflated, so we could see what was inside, and how everything worked. We placed the liferaft in the middle of their workshop floor, and the SMS technician pulled the cord.
Nothing happened. He tried again, and still nothing happened.
He cut the straps to open the box, noting in passing that the straps were the wrong type, and may have been the wrong breaking strain for the box to open ‘automatically’ by bursting apart as the raft inflated.
On opening the box by hand, it was clear that the automatic inflation cord was tangled around the raft, not stored neatly flaked in the cylinder provided, and stood absolutely no chance of inflating the raft from within the box, had it been deployed ‘in anger’.
The tale of woe continues.
The fibreglass box had cracked and been repaired, not particularly well, and had been leaking rainwater and spray onto the liferaft inside. The raft, still sitting in its ‘vacuum pack’, was clearly wet inside the bag, and had been sitting in water for some time.
Once untangled, the cord was pulled again, with the raft now free to inflate – it did so, and started to take on the reassuring shape of a usable liferaft, when the SMS technician had to step in quickly to deflate it again. The top tube of the main raft was bursting out of the casing, because the raft had been packed away with the top tube zip not done up. If we had needed the liferaft, and had managed to overcome the other problems to get the thing to inflate, there is every chance it would have self-destructed, ripping the inner tube on the zip or just bursting the inner tube as the automatic inflation continued without reaching the preset pressure at which the inflation mechanism considers the raft is ‘full’, as there was effectively no outer casing to contain it.
The zip now done up, the SMS technician was able to pump the raft up, using the workshop air supply, to show us the fully inflated raft.
The bag of bits inside was now pulled out for us to have a look at – paddle, sea anchor, water pouches, biscuits, flares – all present and more or less correct for this specification of raft. Oh yes, except some of the seasickness pills, some of the torch batteries and a couple of other things were out of date. Not hugely so, and had we needed them they would ‘probably’ have been ok – although without a properly inflated liferaft under them, the dates on things inside was pretty irrelevant.
All in all, a very sobering experience. We had been sailing for an entire season, including two North Sea crossings, with a liferaft which would not have worked if we had needed it.
We rang the company who had done the previous service, and recited our tale of woe. Their response was firstly to question who had done the service for us, and secondly had we ever let the thing out of our sight so they (SMS) could have ‘fiddled’ with it. These questions answered, their only response was – quoting exactly – ‘oh, well, yeah, we’ve had trouble with that company (ie SMS) before’. What??
When pressed on the various issues, they continued to deny any responsibility or even interest, dismissing all the problems we had found as being the result of “somebody” having “played” with the raft, taking it out of the box and putting it in water, and then repacking it. Because you see that all the time, don’t you, people playing with their liferafts and then repacking them wrong, with out of date stuff inside?
We rang several sailing organisations, including (from memory, as far as I can recall), the Maritime and Coastguard Agency and the RYA, and were advised roughly as follows:
• We have NO contractual relationship with NFG Raft Servicing company as we did not pay their original bill, and therefore cannot ‘sue’ them for ‘breach of contract’ in failing to provide a competent service.
• We have not ‘suffered any loss’ from their negligence or incompetence. Had we drowned, and then been able to prove it was the fault of their negligence that we had done so, then we might have had a case against them. How wonderfully reassuring.
• There is no regulatory requirement for ‘leisure’ liferafts to be serviced by a properly trained or competent individual.
If anyone out there knows better, we would be delighted to hear from you.
We have been left absolutely horrified that:
(a) we had been relying on a fundamental piece of safety equipment, which would have failed had we needed it; and
(b) Nobody seems to care!
NFG raft servicing company is, apparently, properly registered for servicing certain “professional” life rafts (ie for commercial boats), but is NOT trained or approved for ‘leisure’ rafts, and certainly not by or for Plastimo (ie for our particular raft). We can only assume, from the comments they made to us, that they consider leisure users as second class citizens, for whom a liferaft is merely a fashion accessory and not essential safety equipment for which they may be called to account. The other alternative is that they are merely incompetent, and their work on ALL liferafts must be considered suspect.
Suffolk Marine Safety completed the servicing of our raft, and having met the technician who did the work for us, we are happy that the raft would now work if needed, and is good for another three years; it is packed properly in the right bag, the right box, with the right straps, and in-date ‘consumables’. We would recommend SMS to anyone, and would happily use them again.
We advise anyone we speak to NOT to use NFG.
We have talked over the whole sorry tale with various boating friends, and have not reached any useful conclusions, but all have shared our shock at finding that it is not enough simply to look at the date on a raft and assume that an official ‘stamp’ means all is well.
In summary, the problems found were as follows:
• Straps binding the box were not correct type – breaking strain unknown, may not have allowed inflating raft to break out of box;
• Box damaged, and repaired – may have failed to burst straps, instead allowing raft to herniate out of broken case, tearing raft in the process;
• Box wet inside, indicating box was not watertight where repairs to box were inadequate;
• Raft wrongly orientated in box, not stowed with pull cord nearest cord exit;
• Raft packed in wrong bag, ie not approved Plastimo vacuum bag;
• Pull cord tangled around raft, and not correctly flaked in protective tube;
• Main zip not done up on raft – raft could have ruptured, had we ever been able to inflate it;
• Items inside – some out of date.
Taken individually, it is not entirely clear which of these issues was the potential killer, but overall the evidence was indisputable: our liferaft, as packed and serviced by NFG, would not have worked if we had needed it.
What have we learned, and what could or should we have done differently to have avoided spending an entire summer with no working liferaft?
• When your raft needs servicing, go to a company which has been properly trained and approved by the manufacturer for servicing the type of raft you have. They are not all the same.
• Be there to watch when they open it up. You will learn a lot. If they do not allow this, take your raft somewhere else.
• If we bought another second-hand boat now, with a liferaft on it, we would have to assume that the raft needed a service immediately, and would watch while at least some of this work was done – meeting the technician, and becoming a ‘real’ person to him/her, feels like it ought to help. Watching the thing being inflated is, in any event, a useful thing to do if you ever have the chance.
• Check regularly that your raft is still safely packed – check that the straps are the originals, unbroken, still done up, and that the box is still intact. SMS told us a horror story about opening a box and finding that there was no raft in it – it had been stolen!
• We carry an Optimist sailing dinghy, and an inflatable dinghy as well – we would throw all these in the water if we needed to get off the boat, although of course these are not a replacement for a working liferaft.
• Should there be better regulation of liferaft servicing? We think so.
So – Liferafts. Would YOURS work if you needed it? Are you sure?
Mike Chamberlin and Catherine Day, ‘Kealoha V’.

An incredible (but unfortunately, also predictable) tale. Thank you for sharing it.

[barnakiel]

I would not service my raft in Ecuador UNLESS the job is done by a reputed and certified company and under my in situ supervision.

That is to say, in my own boat, in said situation, I would sail on as is.

ymmv

A side story: Yesterday talked to a guy whom I helped source out an old Oyster. She came with 2 Vikings 10 years past re-servicing date (2007). The rafts +15 years old, canisters, stored on deck (some shade from a teak bench above). Both fired up and held air for +48 hours when tested in the boatyard where the boat is being re-built.

I have seen more very old rafts tested. They all inflated and all the brand ones seemed fine to use.

Cheers,
b.

[Chuck Hawley]

OK, I'll give it a shot.

There's nothing magical about the repacking date for a life raft except two issues (that I can think of):

• Dated items, like flares, glue, water, food
• Discovery of hidden damage like water intrusion

I think you could plot a graph of the time between inspections and the likelihood of a failure to operate correctly, and it would start out at perhaps 3% at zero days post-inspection, and rise to 50% at 15 years post-inspection. Obviously this depends on the conditions underwhich the life raft was stored in the interim, especially water exposure and impacts (which tend to pinch or cut the fabric or cut the vacuum bag in which it is sealed.)

So, and this is just a total guess, you might be moving from a 4% change of failure to a 6 or 7% chance of failure.

Add to this equation the fact that life rafts are very seldom used, but they are virtually the only survival solution for boats that burn or sink, unless you have an easily launched dinghy and an EPIRB and calm conditions.

Cheers,

Chuck

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Suijin

You're essentially asking us if you'll be fine not having it inspected, and to quantify the degree of risk. We can't do that.

You need to decide what level of risk you're willing to accept. It's past it's inspection date, so logically your confidence in it's serviceability should start to decline.

If you want to have full confidence in it, have it inspected. If you can live with some degree of risk, then don't. It's "probably" OK, if you can live with probably.

I bump up this one too as it replies the decision / psychology side of this matter so well!

Cheers,
b.

[svHyLyte]

A further note in supplement to my earlier comment (Post #5, above).

Regarding using a raft's gas cylinder for its recert testing: In the process of having our raft recertified, the technician at Solution One did not inflate the raft with the Gas Cylinder but instead with a compressed gas line in the shop. This was so, he explained, because it seems the gas in the cylinder can lead to the breakdown of the adhesive joints in the raft over time. And, also, because the shop gas was completely dry and free of any moisture which is another aspect of ensuring the longevity of the raft itself. After sitting for 48 hours while the pressure in the raft was maintained (successfully in our case), the raft was deflated by a suction line that recovered the gas used for the test. To ensure the cylinder inflation mechanism functioned properly, the gas cylinder was disconnected and a "dummy" cylinder attached and the inflation mechanism activated. (It worked properly). The mechanism was then "re-armed" and our gas cylinder reattached (although it will have to be "hydro-tested" at our next re-certification, in 2019.)

Other: When the raft was repacked, I had a few extra items included and had requested that the old flares etc be retained in the raft as a back-up for the new since out of date flares commonly work properly. To that, however, the technician demurred, indicating that they would happily give me the old flares, batteries and water activated lights but that they were specifically proscribed from including outdated supplies in the raft by the Manufacturer and, evidently, USCG regulations as the company primarily services rafts for commercial ships (which are huge compared to our little 4-person raft near-by on the shop floor!).

Regarding Noisykate's tale of woe, I recall a similar story about the improper servicing of a large number of rafts manufactured by an, until-then, highly regarded English (I believe) Life Raft maker several years ago. The long and short of the story was that the manufacturer ended up in liquidation and shortly out of business. In no case would I trust our raft to any other than a service station authorized by Revere nor any examination for which I was not present.

FWIW...

[Akapeterc]

I recently had my Revere liferaft serviced in Australia which was 3 years past it's service date according to the sticker on it. No problems at all. When I picked it up the new sticker only said 2 years later on it so I enquired why and was told that because one of the things inside only had a life of 2 years on it ( I can't remember what it was I think it might of been a battery or a food item) they had to put that date on it, but the liferaft was good for another 5 years.

[buzzstar]

Risk is, well, risk, and that decision is personal. BUT, based upon some of the places you mention, coupled with posts in some recent threads, I wonder if you will be allowed to enter at all, or if allowed to enter, if you will be allowed to depart without a current inspection status. I believe New Zealand is the most commonly mentioned in this regard.