Outboard Puzzles

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

You girls appear to be putting the old men on this forum to shame, lifting those heavy 2 stoke and 4 stroke motors around without any issues.

Well yes, remember that old Ginger Rogers quote? "I did everything Fred did, except backward and in high heels". But seriously, that's what the mizzen boom and electric winch is for

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

Well yes, remember that old Ginger Rogers quote? "I did everything Fred did, except backward and in high heels". But seriously, that's what the mizzen boom and electric winch is for

That was actually Faith Whittlesey, U.S. ambassador to Switzerland in the 80's, who said that.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

It appears that the Selva gave good service and you were satisfied with it until the shaft seized up. You already own it and am familiar with it's quirks and it will get onto the plane with the dingy you have. Since you won't get much for a second hand motor I'd tend to fix it and keep it.

As to whether you should replace a 2 stroke petrol with an electric I'd tend to resist the urge and wear the 2 stroke out and then make the choice of another petrol or change to the electric. The small 2 strokes are hard to beat for practicality.

I don't have a small 2 stroke. I have an almost new Mercury 3.5 FOUR stroke, which I'm considering whether I want to keep or not.


Yes, the Selva has a lot going for it. It weighs 27kg, so the same as 8hp two strokes, and it always started and ran ok. I have questions about the quality of it, and this seized shaft was the first such problem I've ever had with an outboard engine in a whole lifetime of using them -- first problem that took an outboard irredeemably out of action. Out of action to such an extent that it could not be repaired (and it's still not repaired -- no one knows how to get the parts). So that's the downside of it.


But perhaps it makes sense to keep the Selva as the "big" motor and either keep the Merc or change to electric for the "small" one.


90% of my dinghy use -- my particular use case; others will have different ones -- involves short distances and low speed. So the "small" dinghy motor will get the most use in any case, but it seems to me to make sense to have a motor which can make the dinghy plane, for other tasks, especially since I already have one.


OTOH, even 10hp will not make this dinghy plane with a full load, so am I chasing unicorns here? Maybe I should just forget about it and delete that from the design spec of the dinghy.


The expedition boats we saw in the Arctic and far Northern waters this summer seemed to have one of two motors on their dinks -- either a 2.3hp Honda or a 25hp Yamaha two stroke. Nothing in between. Maybe it doesn't make any sense to chase in-between solutions.





Can anyone share experience with the 3.5hp Merc (or Tohatsu clone)? Does this motor really have such a bad rep?

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That was actually Faith Whittlesey, U.S. ambassador to Switzerland in the 80's, who said that.

Hahaha damn me, of course it was. Anyway.

[daletournier]

I have two outboards. One 3.3hp 2 stroke and one 15hp 2 stroke. We use the little one 95% of the time, so easy to pull up the beach and man handle. The bigger one goes on for diving and longer trips. I like having the best of both worlds.

The big one spends most of its time down stairs , not tempting theives when we aren't on the boat.

Personally im a fan of the simplicity and lightness of two strokes.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I have two outboards. One 3.3hp 2 stroke and one 15hp 2 stroke. We use the little one 95% of the time, so easy to pull up the beach and man handle. The bigger one goes on for diving and longer trips. I like having the best of both worlds.

The big one spends most of its time down stairs , not tempting theives when we aren't on the boat.

Personally im a fan of the simplicity and lightness of two strokes.

Well, there you go. Exactly what I had in mind. Big one for that odd long trip, but 95% of the time you don't need to get the dink on a plane and 2 or 3 hp is plenty.


Downside of that is that you have to store two outboards. I have room on my pushpit, but I don't much like the windage. That's another point in the Torqeedo's favor -- just stick it in the lazarette or wherever -- it makes a very compact bundle.

[a64pilot]

I think a motor to plane, and the lightest motor you can get make the most sense.
If you can’t plane, then your plowing and going slow. Off plane an 8 really isn’t all that much faster than a 3.5, but it sure is bigger and heavier.
That is why I want a Suzuki 2.5 to go with my 20.

Used to be, you bought a Suzuki if you couldn’t afford a Yamaha, and way back the Mercury was the best motor there was, and is still in my opinion in the big motors, the Verado.

However it seems that Suzuki has decided that they don’t want the “I can’t afford a better motor” market and is in my opinion building a better motor than a Yamaha, who has sat on their laurels and selling off of reputation. Its the cycle almost all manufacturers go through.

The secret I believe to the smaller four strokes is ETH free fuel whenever possible, Sta-bil whether there is alcohol in it or not, always running the carb dry, and having a good external filter if you have an external tank.
In short keeping that tiny little carburetor as clean as possible.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I think a motor to plane, and the lightest motor you can get make the most sense.
If you can’t plane, then your plowing and going slow. Off plane an 8 really isn’t all that much faster than a 3.5, but it sure is bigger and heavier.


. . . .


The secret I believe to the smaller four strokes is ETH free fuel whenever possible, Sta-bil whether there is alcohol in it or not, always running the carb dry, and having a good external filter if you have an external tank.
In short keeping that tiny little carburetor as clean as possible.

I think this is it!


The power needed to plane a small RIB is several times what it takes to motor it at hull speed, even against wind and sea.


If you're not going to be planing, a big motor not only won't do anything for you, it also eats up the load capacity of the dink.



So I think it makes eminent good sense to carry two motors if you have space. And IF of course your setup requires you to handle your outboard a lot. Those who keep their dinks in davits all the time will care far less about this.




Now the question is keep the Merc or get a Torqeedo.


I can get the Torqeedo tax free in Guernsey and I don't consider it overpriced at that price -- less than double the cost of the Merc.



The Torqeedo offers less range and somewhat less power than the Merc, but it's lighter and vastly more portable, can be stored below, is silent, etc etc. It is supremely portable -- this is a great advantage.


I hear your comments about precautions against carb gumup, and that is just the kind of faffing I can live without


Hmmmmm.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

Hahaha damn me, of course it was. Anyway.

Well, you wouldn't have had any way to know. It's an obscure factoid -- just I happened to have been present when it was said.

[Snowpetrel]

For a bigger boat like yours it makes sense to have two complete dinghies. This is especially imortant for remote expedition work where the consequences of an outboard failure or hull damage can be life threatening.

In this case one sensible way to go is a big Rib with a decent sized outboard, and a small light 2.4m inflatble with a small outboard as a backup.

So in your shoes I'd keep both outboards and get a small inflatable. That way if one dinghy gets damaged ashore you can at least pick up a stranded crew.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

For a bigger boat like yours it makes sense to have two complete dinghies. This is especially imortant for remote expedition work where the consequences of an outboard failure or hull damage can be life threatening.

In this case one sensible way to go is a big Rib with a decent sized outboard, and a small light 2.4m inflatble with a small outboard as a backup.

So in your shoes I'd keep both outboards and get a small inflatable. That way if one dinghy gets damaged ashore you can at least pick up a stranded crew.

When we were in Greenland, we did have a spare dinghy, kindly loaned to us by a fellow CFer. Stranded crew was a big concern -- polar bears shred dinghies from time to time, and the water is too cold to swim in.


OTOH, we ended up bringing kayaks along, so we probably could have rescued stranded crew with those.




As to a "big RIB" -- I used to have one of those -- 3.4 meter Avon with 25 horse two stroke. Twas great, but could carry it only in davits, a no no for rough ocean passages. I had to downgrade to the 3.1 meter folding RIB, which can't take more than 10hp.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

When we were in Greenland, we did have a spare dinghy, kindly loaned to us by a fellow CFer. Stranded crew was a big concern -- polar bears shred dinghies from time to time, and the water is too cold to swim in.


OTOH, we ended up bringing kayaks along, so we probably could have rescued stranded crew with those.




As to a "big RIB" -- I used to have one of those -- 3.4 meter Avon with 25 horse two stroke. Twas great, but could carry it only in davits, a no no for rough ocean passages. I had to downgrade to the 3.1 meter folding RIB, which can't take more than 10hp.

I hadn't thought of the bears, yikes! I was kind of thinking the 3.1 meter rib is the big one!

But another thought is to carry a big 4.5+ meter fully inflatable dinghy with a hard floor that could take a big outboard. These things are serous workhorses, they just don't like being dragged up beaches day in and day out. But you have the 'little' RIB for that.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

I hadn't thought of the bears, yikes! I was kind of thinking the 3.1 meter rib is the big one!

But another thought is to carry a big 4.5+ meter fully inflatable dinghy with a hard floor that could take a big outboard. These things are serous workhorses, they just don't like being dragged up beaches day in and day out. But you have the 'little' RIB for that. Attachment 178315

I have no possible way to carry a 4.5+ meter dinghy. The 3.1 meter folder is just about the biggest I can handle easily. I have a problem with my foredeck space in that I have a self-tacking staysail with a track, and then not that far forward of that, I have two large dorades for cabin ventilation. The 3.1 fit between these structures only with the narrower bow bit stuck between the dorade granny bars. There are those expensive Russian folding RIBs - "F Ribs" -- which are a little different shape; might try to see if their 3.3 or 3.6 models could fit in there somehow, but those are expensive and they are PVC, not Hypalon. So likely I'm stuck with the Avon.





As to polar bears and dinghies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rikNa_0-4z4

[Snowpetrel]

^^wow, great polar bear video! I was always worried about leopard seals down south... I was not talking about a big RIB, but a fully deflable dinghy. However without room to store one inflated on deck or on the davits it would mean you would need to deflate it every time, and without space to spread them out on deck to get the bottom boards in this is a right nuisance, so I guess not really practical for you.

It's a shame Oyster didn't design a foredeck that would fit a decent sized dinghy. Those bigger inflatables are very good boats, and the ability to completely deflate them and store them below for bigger offshore trips is very nice. They also often seem to perform very well with smaller outboards than an equivalent RIB due to the flatter deadrise angle and lighter weight.

But in your case a small light inflatable with the 3.5hp on it and the the RIB with the 8hp makes a lot of sense. Coastal wise it's easy to fit both inflated and ready to go on the davits and foredeck, and offshore the smaller dinghy is easy to stow below.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

^^wow, great polar bear video! I was always worried about leopard seals down south... I was not talking about a big RIB, but a fully deflable dinghy. However without room to store one inflated on deck or on the davits it would mean you would need to deflate it every time, and without space to spread them out on deck to get the bottom boards in this is a right nuisance, so I guess not really practical for you.

It's a shame Oyster didn't design a foredeck that would fit a decent sized dinghy. Those bigger inflatables are very good boats, and the ability to completely deflate them and store them below for bigger offshore trips is very nice. They also often seem to perform very well with smaller outboards than an equivalent RIB due to the flatter deadrise angle and lighter weight.

But in your case a small light inflatable with the 3.5hp on it and the the RIB with the 8hp makes a lot of sense. Coastal wise it's easy to fit both inflated and ready to go on the davits and foredeck, and offshore the smaller dinghy is easy to stow below.

Mine's a Moody, not an Oyster, but both marques are oriented towards coastal cruising with many disadvantages for high latitude, long distance sailing.


Big electric davits (like my boat had when I bought her; since removed) are perfectly fine for coastal cruising, and will easily deal with a large wheel-steered RIB, like I used to have. That is why no one has bothered to design a good foredeck dinghy storage system, which would not be rocket science. A bit of a well, which I guess would eat a bit of headroom forward, with an overboard drain. Then you have to figure out how to lift it on and off, but I guess you could make a kind of crane with a carbon pole on the spin pole track. This would be really great. I wish I could carry a big RIB, even bigger than the one I used to have, with 30 - 40 hp.