12vdc or 24vdc Anchor Winch Setup ?

[Eco Voyager]

I have two by 90ah starter batteries located together. My starter motor is 12v but I was considering running a 24v anchor winch using the two batteries in series. (Still to buy the winch as mine is manual at present).

Can i do this using solenoid type relay to link the batteries when the anchor is being used but still have 12 v running on the engine as obviously that will be running too. The alternator is 12v as well. Any way I can do this?

Reason is that I can halve the amps used if i go 24v and use smaller cables but I do not want to have to buy another (24v) alternator and starter.

[Dockhead]

The sounds quite Rube Goldberg to me. You would have to have a splitter to charge them, and you would need more relays to disconnect one of them from the regular system. I can't quite imagine how your alternator is going to like charging into one, but not both of them, while they are under heavy load. Ick. Doesn't that seem like an awful lot of trouble just to avoid heavier cables?

24v is great (our whole system except starting is 12v). But it needs to be kept separate from 12v including having its own alternator.

A more elegant way to avoid the long, heavy cables is by putting one 12v battery in the bow specially for your 12v windlass, and charging it through a splitter. Heavy cables are no big deal for a short cable run. And you'll have the benefit of not running down your house batteries.

Add a combiner switch and connecting cable between house and windlass banks, and you can add the new capacity to your house bank, too, when you need it!

[zeehag]

a while back i boatsat a beauty of a 1931 built ketch --built in ireland for fisning. she had 24 v systems and 12 v systems. the owner mistakenly mixed the two and killed his boat. fried all electronics -- be ware of the potential f or major error in this move. my windlass is 12v and is very good. worked on this boat prior to my purchase. works now. no muss with 24v.
i use my windlass only with engine running.

[speciald@ocens.]

I have 24v. and 12v. systems on my boat. the 12v. is for electronics =; everything else is 24v. But I also have 2 alternators, 2 battery banks, and 2 chargers. I don't think it would be practical or cost effective to set up a 24v. supply just for the winch.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by speciald@ocens.

I have 24v. and 12v. systems on my boat. the 12v. is for electronics =; everything else is 24v. But I also have 2 alternators, 2 battery banks, and 2 chargers. I don't think it would be practical or cost effective to set up a 24v. supply just for the winch.

Just out of curiosity, is your starter on the 12v or the 24v system?

[Blue Stocking]

The delco switch #1119844 will allow you to use series/parallel 24/12vdc, with 12vdc charging. Common on older trucks such as the B-series Macks.
Google series/parallel 24/12 swiching and see what you think.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

The delco switch #1119844 will allow you to use series/parallel 24/12vdc, with 12vdc charging...

➥ http://www.texasindustrialelectric.c...ay_drawing.pdf

[noelex 77]

I think Sterling make a 24V charger that is powered by 12v.
A 24V battery (maybe lithium) in the bow to power to winch, with charging from the normal 12v system could work if you required a larger winch. but for your aplicatiion I think staying with a 12v winch would be better.

[foggysail]

I had a 12/24 volt system on my boat a few years ago. The theory behind the circuit is solid and can be found on the internet. It uses one relay closure to make the 24 vdc.

The problem is charging which is/was done while the batteries are connected essentially in parallel. One battery must be charge through a resistor, one recomendation was to use a headlight lamp. That was a good suggestion because the bulb's resistance is low when cold and as it heats, the resistance increases.

Now with all that stated, I had a problem because I uses 25 watt resistors instead of a varible resistor such as a head lamp. The battery that was charged via the resistor never got a good charge slug to knock the sulphate off the plates. I eventually gave up on the idea.

I recommend a setup similar to what I use. I have a 24vdc inverter/charger dedicated to two functions, one is for my TV, microwave and a low enegry 120 vac lamp. The other application is for my windlass. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND 24VDC FOR A WINDLASS!!!

Consider what you're up against using 12vdc. The current can be enormous causing voltage drops in the battery itself, the battery connections, the windlass motor and finally the wiring. If you have say just 1.2 voltage drop you will be losing 10% of youir windlass power. Most likely, you will see about 2-3 volts drop!! And then there is the windlass! You install a windlass to haul both anchor and chain. If that battery fails, you know the consequences.

Yes, there are many who will stand by 12vdc. Do as you wish, I use 24vdc and my Maxwell HWC2200 pulls my 88# anchor attached to 5/16" chain up from the bottom as if the tackle was a toy.

Foggy

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by foggysail

... One battery must be charge through a resistor, one recomendation was to use a headlight lamp. That was a good suggestion because the bulb's resistance is low when cold and as it heats, the resistance increases...

Indeed.
The "hot" resistance of an incandescent lamp is typically at least ten times the "cold" resistance.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by foggysail

I had a 12/24 volt system on my boat a few years ago. The theory behind the circuit is solid and can be found on the internet. It uses one relay closure to make the 24 vdc.

The problem is charging which is/was done while the batteries are connected essentially in parallel. One battery must be charge through a resistor, one recomendation was to use a headlight lamp. That was a good suggestion because the bulb's resistance is low when cold and as it heats, the resistance increases.

Now with all that stated, I had a problem because I uses 25 watt resistors instead of a varible resistor such as a head lamp. The battery that was charged via the resistor never got a good charge slug to knock the sulphate off the plates. I eventually gave up on the idea.

I recommend a setup similar to what I use. I have a 24vdc inverter/charger dedicated to two functions, one is for my TV, microwave and a low enegry 120 vac lamp. The other application is for my windlass. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND 24VDC FOR A WINDLASS!!!

Consider what you're up against using 12vdc. The current can be enormous causing voltage drops in the battery itself, the battery connections, the windlass motor and finally the wiring. If you have say just 1.2 voltage drop you will be losing 10% of youir windlass power. Most likely, you will see about 2-3 volts drop!! And then there is the windlass! You install a windlass to haul both anchor and chain. If that battery fails, you know the consequences.

Yes, there are many who will stand by 12vdc. Do as you wish, I use 24vdc and my Maxwell HWC2200 pulls my 88# anchor attached to 5/16" chain up from the bottom as if the tackle was a toy.

Foggy

Well, there are tens of thousands of boats out there using 12v successfully for their windlasses. If you get the cables big enough and/or batteries close enough, I don't think it's such a problem.

I do have a 24v windlass (and most of the rest of my system besides) and love it. But I really, really wouldn't recommend some Rube Goldberg switching, relaying combination 12/24v electrical system. Or charging through resistors, dumping precious power overboard. One malfunction or misconnection and Poof! No more electrics. KISS is such an important principle at sea, in my opinion.

If you really want a 24v windlass, then I would humbly suggest a second 24v alternator and separate battery bank. You can find other things to run off it. This really makes a lot of sense if you have a lot of heavy DC power users on board, like thruster and electric winches, besides the windlass, as we do. If you only have the windlass, I question whether it is worth all the trouble, but it's up to you to decide.

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, there are tens of thousands of boats out there using 12v successfully for their windlasses. If you get the cables big enough and/or batteries close enough, I don't think it's such a problem.
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I do have a 24v windlass (and most of the rest of my system besides) and love it. But I really, really wouldn't recommend some Rube Goldberg switching, relaying combination 12/24v electrical system. Or charging through resistors, dumping precious power overboard. One malfunction or misconnection and Poof! No more electrics. KISS is such an important principle at sea, in my opinion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
If you really want a 24v windlass, then I would humbly suggest a second 24v alternator and separate battery bank. You can find other things to run off it. This really makes a lot of sense if you have a lot of heavy DC power users on board, like thruster and electric winches, besides the windlass, as we do. If you only have the windlass, I question whether it is worth all the trouble, but it's up to you to decide.

Dockhead---

If you're going to quote my post for a response, please ....

I am jumping ahead to your second paragraph. I DID NOT RECOMMEND SOME RUBE GOLDBERG SWITCHING CIRCUIT WITH RELAYS, POWER RESISTORS and on and on.

From my post---- "The battery that was charged via the resistor never got a good charge slug to knock the sulphate off the plates. I eventually gave up on the idea.

I recommend a setup similar to what I use. I have a 24vdc inverter/charger dedicated to two functions, one is for my TV, microwave and a low enegry 120 vac lamp. The other application is for my windlass. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND 24VDC FOR A WINDLASS!!!"


Please, I have a 24vdc inverter/charger, it provides two functions.....that was my recommendation.


I will now jump back to your first paragraph. Twelve volt circuits are found everywhere. There must be billions of them BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE A TWELVE VOLT CIRCUIT PREFERABLE.

Yes, I agree, one can install very heavy wires, large battery banks and problems can be limited. But problems will still be there. There will still be internal voltage drop in the battery it self. Connectors will cause problems over time. Yes, most windlass sold operate on twelve volts but that still does not eliminate the preblems created when huge load currents are demanded. Twelve volts when used in high current applications ARE A PROBLEM! And remember, I said "Yes, there are many who will stand by 12vdc!"


Finally, referring to your last paragraph. You suggested a second 24 vdc alternator and a separate battery bank. I don't understand your recommendation over what I posted. I have a dedicated 24 vdc battery bank as I implied, maybe I should have been clearer. But why would you recommend a 24v alternator???


Alternator output voltage is controlled by the field current. In fact, that 12v alternator in your car can output well over 100vdc if the fields are properly excited!!! But why an alternator??? An alternator has too many limitations.

I use my Kohler 7.5KW generator to power a 1500 watt inverter/charger that charges the batteries are over 50 amperes. An alternator cannot charge at this rate UNLESS IT IS DESIGNED FOR HIGH CURRENTS AND MAY REQUIRE WATER COOLING.


But we do agree on the beauty of using 24vdc! You did mention that if you only had a windlass, the merits of using a higher voltage could be questionable. Maybe but if you have as I do, an inverter charger I now enjoy 120vac to power my TV and microwave along with lamps using low energy fluorescents, the cork screw type. Can you imagine how others look at my boat at night well lighted, a large screen TV viewable from the outside?

Yes, we do agree and I advise often that others give consideration to operating high power loads on 24 rather than 12.

Foggy