2 Anchors 1 Windlass?

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by farm sail

If I wanted to cheap out I would have posted in the budget cruisers thread if I didn't have a need I would not have asked the question. I guess I did not realize I needed to defend my reason for wanting to ask a question. it was your choice to infer i did not know what i needed and proceed to tell me what you thought I needed instead. Sounds like a pretty solid definition of criticize. Perhaps in the future for judging and condeming somebody else's decisions you might just answer the question or ask for more information

Dude, reread my post, I explained in detail how to manage two anchors with a single gyspy? Did you even read my response? I said to tie off the chain with a snotter while you heave on the drum and then replace the chain on the gyspy and heave on it.

Maybe a picture would help? Is that not a crystal clear explanation of how to manage your problem?

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[FamilyVan]

If my terminology is throwing you off, just say so, I'm more than happy to explain what is meant by a gypsy, drum and snotter, if I was treating you like an idiot than I wouldn't have used proper rigging terminology, but in my experience, farmers tend to be pretty familiar with working with ropes, chains and rigging.

Most farmers around here (like my dad and both my grandfathers when they were alive) skid trees in the winter due to the short growing season, so I may have made an error in assuming you were familiar with the terminology, but that's it, it was just an error, no malice was intended.

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[JRM]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

Dude, reread my post, I explained in detail how to manage two anchors with a single gyspy? Did you even read my response? I said to tie off the chain with a snotter while you heave on the drum and then replace the chain on the gyspy and heave on it.

Maybe a picture would help? Is that not a crystal clear explanation of how to manage your problem?

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FamilyVan has this one in spades. I can't improve on that except for in explanation.

The second anchor for emergencies or for "reduced swing." Neither of those scenarios require speed or readiness *in retrieval* which is what the windlass is for.

In the case of reduced swing, you'll most likely drop it off the stern like every other person in the anchorage, in which case we mostly use the dink to toss it out behind us after the primary is well set. We've tried lots of different ways, that way just seems to work the simplest and most reliably. I did charter a 50 footer where the anchors were both on the bow, which required real diligence when walking the rode back to the stern. For the size stern anchor required for a 30 footer (we had a Catalina 30) you could use a roller to a primary winch if you can't raise it by hand, and then a chain hook on a line for the last bit of chain. We kept our stern/kedge in a bucket in the lazarette.

For emergency deployment from the bow, you're going to be up there anyway. You'll have to undo whatever securing method you use (pin, tied, etc) prior to dropping, and you'll want to free spool it, because even at 60 fps it'll take way too long to deploy if you're in a pinch. On our boat the windlass power switch is down below in a cabinet. Not exactly emergency friendly because we sail with it off.

That is a long way to say that you can swap back and forth between a single gypsy or drum without making things complicated or expensive. Even if you drop both off the bow, you're still only going to retrieve them one at a time. Plenty of time to snub one off while you grab the other and then swap. You can sail off the last one. If you find yourself in a spot where you can't retrieve the first one without sail power, then you'll have to use the engine less sailors perogative and just wait till you can.

JRM

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[jreiter190]

Okay, dead simple. You don't need to keep both anchors on the bow. You don't even have to deploy them from the bow. Drop your"best bower anchor from the bow and, if you think you need to lay out a second hook, get into position and drop the second from the cockpit. Then walk the rode up to the foredeck. Same for retrieving. You have two good windlass in your cockpit.

[jreiter190]

Is no nice to gang up on people.Dood

[jreiter190]

Originally Posted by stevebein

Did anyone notice the name, Larry Pardey, of the initial post? If this is really Larry, then we should be asking him, not answering what looks like a tongue in cheek, or phoney post.
Lin and Larry know how to anchor and if they need one or two anchors, how to handle rough seas, etc. Why this post and thread>

He didn't say he was Pardey, he QUOTED Pardey because he liked his philosophy of going small and going sooner than later. Do you know the Pardeys?

[farm sail]

Again I want to thank the handful of you that actually offered information thoughts and ideas to help me with my situation. as for the rest of you thst are so opinionated you have to tell me that I'm wrong and I don't need to do what I'm trying to do well you finally got your way. You ran me off from my own thread. Never had that happen before. I am gone, have fun pounding your chest snd feel free to argue amongst your self i have abandoned the thread

[FamilyVan]

With that attitude I'm sure this won't be the last.

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[GrahamHO]

Originally Posted by farm sail

I want to have 2 complete anchors with rode on the bow ready for deployment is there a simple way I can manage both with one windlass or will I need to install a second windlass?

How do you manage retrieval of a second anchor off the bow?

Why don't you just use a decent single anchor and chain / warp so you don't need 2 anchors? Your boat is similar in size to mine. I use a 10 kg (22 lb) genuine Bruce anchor. I slide a home made weight on a line down the warp about 8' (anchor buddy) and it always holds in conditions when I'd rather not be there. I use a vertical windless similar to a Maxwell because we sometimes go fishing in 30 metres (100' approx) depth and I find pulling about 40 or so pounds 100' vertically by hand doable but a lot of work for my 76 year old muscles.


As my vertical winch is just a windless I could use it on any rope / chain I might want to. The chrome plated models soon lose their plating where the chain rubs but that doesn't matter as the drums are " usually always" made of bronze.

2 anchors can easily tangle up if / when the wind or tide change and be much worse than a single anchor. If you feel the need you can attach 2 anchors, one in front of the other using chain between them on a single line. Also if you wanted you could have a second lighter lunch anchor, chain, and warp that you will easily handle by hand on a 29' yacht. I sometimes use an additional stern anchor to keep the bow into any waves when the wind and waves are from different directions to prevent rolling around. I row that out on an angle behind the boat with the dinghy after setting the main anchor.


Suitable warp and chain for our size boats won't break as you could lift much more than the weight our boats with it. Just keep it in good condition and replace the chain when it starts getting rusty. Likewise the warp which you can end for end after a while as one end doesn't get much use. Don't re galvanise the chain when it's getting old. Just buy new short link chain which is heavier than long link. Last year I took my old chain to the scrap merchant and got about $1 for it but that got rid of it.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Left field indeed! If you use a "flatline" to lie to a buoy the flapping and rattling will drive you bonkers as the line tries to make like a demented aeroplane. The aerodynamics are the same as those that caused the Seattle-Tacoma Bridge to collapse those many years ago. :-)

All very true, no doubt, but an ankarolina is used for anchoring and not tying off to bouys.

Apparantly the OP asked a trick question because it's not the hauling of the anchors but the laying / storage of rode that is the issue in his scenario.

[Mithril Bham]

Good suggestions but why would you want to deploy 2 anchors off the bow on a 29 ft. boat?

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by Bill Balme

Bill,
I have the exact same windlass albeit with only one chain gypsy and love it - even though it died on me in Finland last year when anchored in 80ft! New motor fixed that - right up until a lightning strike took it out at the end of August :-(
Personally I'm a believer in not using 2 anchors, but instead using one big one! (80lb Manson Supreme) I'd be happy with that lineup in a major blow. I do have a spare anchor - and its a similar size (77lb Spade).
For when I need to reduce swing, I can deploy a Fortress 37 from the stern - though have never needed up to now.

Gus is cute!

Hi Bill,

Sorry to hear you had motor issues with your Lighthouse windlass... I trust they got you squared away in short order? I've had great customer service from them and hope you did as well.

RE: 2 anchors; I concur. I rarely set 2. It is there as a ready-to-deploy spare in an emergency.

e.g., Sometimes in fall and winter in the higher latitudes we frequent (55N-70N) we can get some pretty serious blows in an otherwise calm anchorage- usually from williwaws. I like being able to drop a 2nd if the 1st is starting to drag (last time this happened was 20 years ago when 70 knot williwaws bent one fluke on the FX37 like it was an elf's shoe... different vessel of half the weight of the one I have now...) That event put me against the rocks [I was able to motor off, but the nightmare got worse...] because my 2nd anchor was on deck, but not quite ready to deploy... I intend to be able to react faster if that ever happens again...

Another scenario is if we had to cut the primary anchor rode and run off to anchor elsewhere, we would be ready. [Like airbags, one hopes to never need the 2nd anchor...] Some cruising friends had to do that just last year when a gale became a storm in Tierra del Fuego.

About the only other time we drop it is if I need to reduce swing in a calm anchorage for whatever reason. [Drop it straight down and let it drag around on the bottom as a weight... Which is really all the CQR is good for anyway... I would also prefer a Spade, or perhaps one of the new Rocna Vulcan anchors... The CQR came with the boat and has a nice chalk amidships on deck to stow it as another cruising spare...]

Thanks for your kind comments regarding Gus. [For others: Gus is of our 2 boat cats who recently posted to our blog...] He is a character all right...

Cheers!

Bill

[secrabtree]

Farmsail - You have a Farallon 29? For such a boat do you really think that you need ground tackle that a twelve year old boy couldn't handle manually?
For a couple years my windlass didn't work. During those years I saved my pennies to buy a good windlass and handled my anchor by hand. My boat is a 1971 Cal 39 and I sailed, often singlehanded, sometimes with non-sailing passengers that were along for the ride but not to crew. mainly along the Pacific Coast and anchored in many places. My anchor was a 35# Danforth (sometimes a 23#) with an all chain rode. But I was younger then, 20 years ago - I was only 60, 5'7, 240# (That gives you an idea of my physical fitness). Last year I was anchored in the San Francisco-Sacramento Delta and my windlass gave up. Even at 79 I was able to handle the 35# Delta anchor that I got before heading to Mexico in 2005-2009. I see no reason for ground tackle that any adult couldn't handle on a Farallon 29. In fact, I think you'd be adding excess complexity on that boat to have ANY windlass.
But if you still want a windlass I see no reason that one windlass couldn't handle two or more bow anchors. The windlass is for hauling the anchor, not for holding the rode, chain or rope, while anchored. If you have two anchors down the rodes will be stopped with either a cleat each or a Sampson post or a chain stopper. The force in the rodes, either or both, SHOULD NOT be held by the windlass. The rode may even be taken off the windlass while anchored (in my case to make it easier to use the windlass to haul a camera weilding spectator to the top of the mast with an unused halyard).

[Jman]

Secrabtree,

He said he has some disability issues, which warrant the windlass, regardless of the boat size. Why he wants two anchors he never really explained (other than specialized anchors for different bottoms). He got fed about 10-12 posts ago and unsubscribe from his own post. What kind of advice he was looking for is unclear. His profile says "Go small, go simple, go now" so why he got so upset when everyone said that two bow anchors is not in accordance with that, I can't explain.

Maybe he already has two gorgeous stainless anchors and bow rollers, so any suggestion of discarding some of the bling upset him?


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[jessehunt]

SaltyTanned, I have a wireless remote on my windass, and solo at times. I have a GoPro camera which is Bluetooth capable. I clamp it to the bow pulpit, Bluetooth link it to my iPhone or iPad, and can see the rode as it comes up.