2 Qs about Anchor Line

[TheThunderbird]

Thanks in advance:

Boat is 54' LOA, 27tonnes D

I have old school original 75#CQR.

1st Q
ASSUMING (!?) that new generation anchors are fairly better, which new anchor would you consider!?
MANTUS
SPADE
FORTRESS
ROCNA
DELTA
....... ?
and, equally important, similar weight, or substantially lower, as sometimes suggested (Alu) ?
................

2nd Q (urgent!)
I've added 180' of 20mm (7/8") of 12strand poly to equally long 10mm chain line.

Rope is back spliced to shackle.

A) I can keep shackle on chain, facing potential trouble under deck, when taking it out (and having to set it back yard by yard..)

or,quite elegantly... (really so??)....

B) i can connect it as needed, on bow (chain being temporarily secured to a service rope)... and release the line from stern (where I have an anchor reel, an electric winch, and can keep the main rope at hand)

Am I doing anything wrong under B) ? (my choice)

PS boat heels and sails widely under hook on strong winds. I'd be happy to be on a stern-hook in dire conditions, easier to get away and retrieve the line later....

[redsky49]

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird

Thanks in advance:

Boat is 54' LOA, 27tonnes D

I have old school original 75#CQR.

1st Q
ASSUMING (!?) that new generation anchors are fairly better, which new anchor would you consider!?
MANTUS
SPADE
FORTRESS
ROCNA
DELTA
....... ?
and, equally important, similar weight, or substantially lower, as sometimes suggested (Alu) ?
................

2nd Q (urgent!)
I've added 180' of 20mm (7/8") of 12strand poly to equally long 10mm chain line.

Rope is back spliced to shackle.

A) I can keep shackle on chain, facing potential trouble under deck, when taking it out (and having to set it back yard by yard..)

or,quite elegantly... (really so??)....

B) i can connect it as needed, on bow (chain being temporarily secured to a service rope)... and release the line from stern (where I have an anchor reel, an electric winch, and can keep the main rope at hand)

Am I doing anything wrong under B) ? (my choice)

PS boat heels and sails widely under hook on strong winds. I'd be happy to be on a stern-hook in dire conditions, easier to get away and retrieve the line later....

Looking for opinions?? Well, here are mine:

Forget the Delta.
Select a Fortress for your storm anchor.
Primary anchor either the Rocna, Mantus or Manson.
Spade is overpriced, based on comparable performance.
Pick up a small anchor, your choice, for a kedge. Say 20 lbs.
Size your primary anchor per the manufacturer's suggestions.
Forget an aluminum anchor, other than the Fortress.

As to part 2:

Depends partly where you sail. The existing 180' of chain should be sufficient 90-95% of the time. Add the rope whenever you might require it. I might store it on a reel, someplace handy.

I carry 270' of chain, but don't believe I have ever needed more than 150' or so (that I can recall). 180' should suffice.

[TheThunderbird]

Great :-)

Around Sicily it is hard to find anything less than 60' deep for mooring, unless in front of harbours...
:-)

Yap, I have something which I can accommodate as a reel on stern, just need to check for its rope-capacity (I imply you agree on the stern line....)


Anchors: in the past, a storm-anchor was the heaviest. At present, with windlass, I tend to think that the primary one, on bow, is also the strongest one ....am I wrong?

My spare one is another CQR, LIGHTER 60#, not a stormy device, just an easy to deploy spare/2nd one

[Lepke]

Anchor rode length is determined by depth where you anchor and depth you may need to anchor in an emergency. Recommended ratio is 7:1 for cable and 4:1 all chain. In a storm, you need more. You're somewhere in between. The main issue is weight holding down the shank so anchor doesn't work it's way out. I carry 600' of chain because where I cruise it gets deep fast and there are strong currents.
Commercial fishing suppliers always have current anchors cheaper than yacht suppliers. Also Ebay and Amazon.

[TheThunderbird]

Thanks Lepke


For carrying around that much chain line, which boat do you use? :-)

Yap, fishermen use basic anchors, not last generation ones.

I think I may have quick holding, dependability, but not any lighter... unless Alu Fortress


Yet, by a simplistic look, they look all as PLOUGH A. no more no less
Maybe, a CQR with sharper/longer cone would equally fare well (...nice to test?)

[Spade Anchor]

The shank of the Spade Anchor is very similar to the dimensions of the CQR shank. That translates to the Spade Anchor sitting on your bow almost exactly as the CQR currently does. Hopefully that helps you as far as knowing how the Spade Anchor would rest on your current set up.
CruisersForum.com members receive a 10% discount on purchases.

[Greg H]

Just wondering about delta. I have a 55 pound delta on a 38' cat and I think it would hold in a parking lot. We were anchored in 35 to 40 knot winds several times and worked like a champ.

[kas_1611]

I upgraded from a 16kg Delta last year to a 33kg Rocna Vulcan and haven't had a sleepless night on the hook since. Yes I know that's a huge anchor for a 40ft boat but I'm in the "go big or go home" school when it comes to anchors.

My thinking is forget the secondary anchor and have something that will hold you in just about anything Mama Nature can throw at you. My 33kg, theoretically at least, will hold us in a hurricane so it will definitely hold us in 20kts. Having a big anchor up front means I don't have to faff about rigging up a secondary, getting it set or getting it all tangled in the bower line. Simples.

I also upgraded our 50m of basic 8mm chain to G70 8mm, adding an extra 10m along with getting 45m of 16mm octoplait spliced to the chain. 60m of chain gives us an anchoring limit of 13.5m water (15m to the bow roller) at 4:1, with the extra as well we can hang on in there at 18.5m water (20m to the roller) at 5:1 or get in nice and snug in a bay and lay out plenty of rode to stern to or ride out a big blow. Chances are we may never use the full rode but like a condom it is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

As for which anchor to chose it comes down to dimensions and personal choice. I looked at the Mason Supreme and the Mantus along with the rollbar Rocna but the size of anchor I wanted simply wouldn't fit on my roller as the shank was too long. So I went for the Vulcan and it actually fits better than the original 16kg Delta.

Performance wise the Vulcan is impressive, it sets within a meter and once it starts digging in it soon heads deep into the substrate. Basically lower it to the bottom, let out 2 and a bit times the water, let it start digging in and you'll be going nowhere. We let out to 3x, give it some reverse, snub up and rest easy. If it looks like the wind might get up we let out to 4x. We've been on the anchor a few times where the wind shifts several times so we end up rotating right around but the Vulcan shows no signs of moving apart from an occasional sign of a little shuffle. Certainly no break out and reset.

Hope that helps

Keiron

[Manos1955]

Common sense and my experience says, look the local fishermen with similar size boats what are they using and copy bcopythe anchor type and scope length

[Jim Cate]

While I respect and usually admire folks who wrest a living from the sea, IME fishermen are not always great models of anchoring technique nor equipment. Their requirements are quite different than we cruisers have, for they seldom anchor for long periods in one spot, seldom leave their boats unattended while they are ashore and the boat is anchored,seldom venture far from their home waters and often have "industrial grade" anchor handling gear capable of hoisting immense weight of tackle. The typical cruiser must deal with those sorts of situations daily, and with lighter machinery.

I've not seen the fishermen in the Med close up and personal, but I have throughout the South Pacific... and they are often the first to drag when the wx goes to pot. With the risk of offending some, the trawlermen of Queensland leave a lot to be desired as seamen IMO, and this includes their anchoring practices (and their observation of the COLREGS too!). Some are highly skilled old salts, others are off season cane farmers...

At any rate, the advice to emulate the local fishermen should be viewed with some reservations!

Jim

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

While I respect and usually admire folks who wrest a living from the sea, IME fishermen are not always great models of anchoring technique nor equipment. Their requirements are quite different than we cruisers have, for they seldom anchor for long periods in one spot, seldom leave their boats unattended while they are ashore and the boat is anchored,seldom venture far from their home waters and often have "industrial grade" anchor handling gear capable of hoisting immense weight of tackle. The typical cruiser must deal with those sorts of situations daily, and with lighter machinery.

I've not seen the fishermen in the Med close up and personal, but I have throughout the South Pacific... and they are often the first to drag when the wx goes to pot. With the risk of offending some, the trawlermen of Queensland leave a lot to be desired as seamen IMO, and this includes their anchoring practices (and their observation of the COLREGS too!). Some are highly skilled old salts, others are off season cane farmers...

At any rate, the advice to emulate the local fishermen should be viewed with some reservations!

Jim

This has been my (casual) observations too. The fishermen around here have very old school anchors but they really hardly ever use them and when they do they are on the boat. I would not copy them if it were my boat.

[Don C L]

I think most folks will say that the primary anchor and the "storm" anchor should be the same thing. I use Danforths because I know I am always on 2 hooks, but in cases/places where you are on one you'd want one of the new generation anchors that can be pulled in any direction and reset itself quickly. As much as I love the Danforth and Fortress, I would not recommend them for that. By the way, in 60 feet of water you should be planning on over 400 feet of rode out when it is blowing if you are going with 7 to 1 scope. A lot of folks think of the stern anchor like a "lunch hook" or a kedge. This is a mistake IMO. Since it will be likely pulled in only one direction, a big Fortress with plenty of rode is a good choice for the stern for times you need it.

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I think most folks will say that the primary anchor and the "storm" anchor should be the same thing. I use Danforths because I know I am always on 2 hooks, but in cases/places where you are on one you'd want one of the new generation anchors that can be pulled in any direction and reset itself quickly. As much as I love the Danforth and Fortress, I would not recommend them for that. By the way, in 60 feet of water you should be planning on over 400 feet of rode out when it is blowing if you are going with 7 to 1 scope. A lot of folks think of the stern anchor like a "lunch hook" or a kedge. This is a mistake IMO. Since it will be likely pulled in only one direction, a big Fortress with plenty of rode is a good choice for the stern for times you need it.

+1

[Mantus 1]

By the size of your boat TheThunderBird your anchor would be considered under sized. By most of the new age anchor charts you would need an anchor of about 100 lb. In the case of ours we suggest our 105 lb. as a great working anchor. And our shank is very similar to the CQR's also. We also offer a discount to forum members.