3 strand anchor snubber twisting

[model 10]

I have a problem with the 3 strand snubber winding up under load (5/8 line 5/16 chain.) Sometimes I have seen 5' or so of the chain and line wound up. I have been using a rolling hitch and once or twice it has come undone. I suppose it wouldn't come undone with a hook but I like the simplicity a knot. I guess double braid would be the way to go but not as much stretch. Any thoughts aside from perhaps I tie a bad knot every once and a while?

[rebel heart]

How much of a loop of chain are you letting out? I don't see how the line would twist but the chain wouldn't; they should be swinging the same. Maybe it's twisting when you're letting it out? What's your tidal range, or how often are you spinning around?

Regarding the knot slipping, try leaving more tail from the rolling hitch, then tie a single hitch with it around the chain as well. That's never come off for me yet and doesn't bind in anyway.

Personally I think it's a lot saltier to ace the rolling hitch than to use hooks or expensive pieces of metal that vendors will undoubtedly start hocking in this thread. My $0.02.

[model 10]

Well I let out a loop of chain so it almost touches the bottom and I use about 20 feet of snubber. I needs to be blowing pretty good for this twisting thing to happen. You know water coming out of the line etc.. I sometimes think if I tied the knot the other direction from the twist of the 3 strand lay it would not do this but my brain does not work that way. It also twists the chain for a way down the rode.

[savoir]

3 strand nylon does not knot well because it is too stiff. If you want to knot then get some braid.

[noelex 77]

Try a short loop of braid tie this to the chain with a Klemheist knot then join this to the snubber.
It is much more secure than a rolling hitch (especially thicker rope on thinner chain). It almost as quick to tie, and easier to undo.

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Michael.

I too, would suggest the
➥ Klemheist (Machard, French Prusik) Knot | How to tie the Klemheist Knot | Climbing Knots
or
➥ Prusik Knot | How to tie the Prusik Knot | Climbing Knots

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by savoir

3 strand nylon does not knot well because it is too stiff. If you want to knot then get some braid.

People have been using rolling hitches in three strand for decades.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

People have been using rolling hitches in three strand for decades.

It takes some people a long time to learn

[lancelot9898]

I have switched to using the klemheist knot rather than the rolling hitch. There were a few times when the rolling hitch came undone. I think if tension is removed from the rolling hitch as the bow moves back and forth there is a possibility that it might loosen.

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by lancelot9898

I have switched to using the klemheist knot rather than the rolling hitch. There were a few times when the rolling hitch came undone. I think if tension is removed from the rolling hitch as the bow moves back and forth there is a possibility that it might loosen.

Not arguing against other methods, but a single hitch with the tail of a rolling hitch has kept it from doing that for me. I'm a big fan of the rolling hitch because I find it such a useful hitch in general.

[GMac]

That twisting is a sign of either low quality rope that wasn't de-torqued during manufacture or maybe over loading a bit. Many of the laid ropes will spin under big loads that's why you see little being used by commercial operators.

A double braid will be fragile and have little elasticity as mentioned. Not the best choice.

Use a 8 braid, 8 brait, Ocitplait or as some know it 'that plaited looking stuff'. Non rotating so shouldn't twist, will stretch sooner, stretch more evenly and if it's all turning bad will fall apart the slowest. The sooner and evenly probably won't be that visible to most but it does.

[KenR]

Hi Michael,
Responses have provided good advice. There are some other things to consider. I assume your boat is 12 meters with displacement less the 14,000 kilograms. I would suggest using 13 mm (1.2 inch) 3-strand nyon snubbing line. This may help with the rolling hitch. It has been suggest to keep the line less then 5 meters and chafe protected. As another post suggested, make sure you have suffiient loop in the chain from the hitch to the bow; never gets taut. You want to keep the windlass free of shock loads, prevent pulling out the anchor and prevent "winding" . You may want to secure the anchor chain with a safety line to a secure point; don't depend on the windlass. You are likey attaching to a bow cleat so insure it has a proper backing plate, if not you may want to consider a bridle. A bridle keeps you more straight in the wind and distributes load. You may use a lighter line for normal use and the heavier line for strong winds; experiment.

[model 10]

GMac; Your thoughts explain a lot. When we tried a 3 strand 3/8 line it had great strech but it was overloaded and torqued up to much . 1/2" line was good but wore out over time so we switched to 5/8" but cheap 5/8" and it torqued up... I have never used an 8 or 12 strand rope but will buy a length..

[thinwater]

I sounds like common 3-strand rotation. As some posters have noted, this varies with manufacture. Examples:

* Crane whip lines (single strand, no tackle) never use swivles on the load end. Under high load the cable will unlay and hockle when the load is released, ruining the cable.

* Rock climbing ropes commonly contain a balance of right and left hand internal strands to prevent rotation.

* A good reason for not having a swivle on a 3-strand anchor rode. If both ends are secure against rotation, the line can't unlay. In most applications--tackles, towlines, docklines--rotation is prevented.

It is always a good idea to relieve extream loads slowly.

[GMac]

Originally Posted by thinwater

* A good reason for not having a swivle on a 3-strand anchor rode. If both ends are secure against rotation, the line can't unlay. In most applications--tackles, towlines, docklines--rotation is prevented

Not quite righ sorry Thin. With laid anchor warps that is the only occasion we suggest you do use a swivel. Some of the laid rope these days are price based so often are made quick and as you may have noticed there is also more 'soft' stuff around. It's made soft as that is lighter so it costs less.

Mobs like us buy ropes by the container load and we don't buy 200ft/mts or whatever. I order 3524kilos of Nylon and then say something like make that 500kg of 8mm, 750kg of 10mm and ext. We get 'approximately' that in the container as getting XXkg spot on isn't an easy ask. Our last container had a tad over 109,000mts in around 40 different sizes using 3 materials in it. The invoice only had 3 lines on it, the total weight used of each fibre type.

Anyway with soft and cheap laid ropes they can unlay easily, even with both ends fixed if you apply a good load, so a swivel can save you grief at times.