5/16" Stainless G4 Anchor Chain for Bruce Roberts 44?

[mickand]

I broke a stainless anchor in half some years ago - no more stainless for me

[SteveSadler]

Looks like we mostly agree on the chain subject. I carry 150' of 3/8" galv with 150' of 7/8" nylon spliced as shown. Only once did I need more chain, both times med style misjudging the distance to the seawall.
In a past 82'ketch I used 100' of 1/2" chain, and 300' of nylon. I liked the setup as we always had some nylon out. No need for a seperate snubber, and great weight savings.
The "anchor isn't as important" comment I disagree with. It's the single most important piece of equipment on any cruising boat sailing coastal. That changes on passages. A stroll thru a cruising destination marina will prove it. Most have only the most modern and oversized anchors, even if the rest of the boat is under budgeted.

[anacapaisland42]

It seems to me that the ? of anchoring is approached from the wrong aspect. Instead of "how little can I get away with" I feel one should approach the topic with "how much weight I can handle and what is the best chain/rode/anchor combination for this weight?"

The ratio of chain (heavy) to rode (light) is important and to a large degree depends on your storage area, not much storage area and you're into chain!


I guess I'm a neanderthal since for my money use lots of heavy chain with "something at the end" to help it stop dragging and some rode to act as a spring line.



Of course nowadays sailors spend a whole bunch of money to get that "something at the end" provide a little more resistance to dragging.


Bill

Originally Posted by roverhi

5/16" is too light a chain for a 44' boat in my opinion. You need weight in the chain to provide a catenary in strong wind/high wave conditions. 5/16" chain just doesn't supply that on a boat with the windage and displacement of a 44'/28,000# boat not even considering strength. If a boat of that size can't handle the weight of 250' of 3/8" chain would seriously consider its suitability as a cruising boat. We had 230' of 3.8" chain on our 20,000# boat. Almost never used more than 150' of the chain but it's those 'oh crap' moments when you'll be thankful that you had it.

If you are in love with the chain you found, would consider a smaller boat to match it.

[GrowleyMonster]

It's not the weight of the chain that I was concerned with, but where that weight gets located. Still, I can try 100' of 3/8" and see how I like it, maybe add on another piece later. Meanwhile I will keep an eye out for a suitable windlass. I still got three months to decide. Not due to get off the ship until Feb.

[Chuck Hawley]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Double check the specs. "G4" stainless chain normally is only G30 strength, but is made to G4 dimensions. A real slight of hand job.

I agree. I am not aware of any "high test" SS chain, although it certainly could exist. I think there is a general misunderstanding about chain strength, due to the variation between WLL (working load limit) and the ultimate strength of the chain. Depending on whether you're talking about proof coil, high test, lashing, or hoisting chain, the difference between WLL and ultimate strength varies from 3x to 4x. Virtually all of the SS chain that I have encountered has had strength similar to proof coil.

The tables that ABYC has been using for 40 or more years came originally from testing that Robert Danforth Ogg did with some students from MIT, as I recall. Bob set up a boat that was on a mooring with some very early recording instruments that measured windspeed and tension on the mooring pennant. I don't recall how many boats he tested, but he came up with the lunch hook, working anchor, and storm anchor recommendations based on this study. If I had to guess, I'd say this happened some time after WW2.

Cheers,

Chuck Hawley

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

It's not the weight of the chain that I was concerned with, but where that weight gets located. Still, I can try 100' of 3/8" and see how I like it, maybe add on another piece later. Meanwhile I will keep an eye out for a suitable windlass. I still got three months to decide. Not due to get off the ship until Feb.

Remember that you much chose a gypsy size for the windlass, and that they are EXPENSIVE to change.


I said 5/16" high strength chain should be enough, but I was assuming (and said as much that you were hauling by hand. With a 44' boat a windlass makes a LOT of sense. In that case, 3/8" chain is the apparently unanimous suggestion. I'd go for ~200' of G4 backed by nylon 3-strand (I've used and tested plaited rope--not as cut resistant).


I will make some light suggestions for multihulls. But I also KNOW they will use a snubber (bridle) and that they weight less. The right answer depends on many factors, including the boat, the sailor, and where you will be going.

[wsmurdoch]

Two of the claimed advantages of stainless chain are that it sheds mud better than galvanized chain and that it does not castle as badly as galvanized chain.

I have now three times put my 100+ ft of galvanized 5/16" chain in a plastic sheeting lined cardboard box and sprayed a can of Boeshield T-9 over it moving the chain from time to time to wet all the surfaces. When dry it leaves a greasy waxy coating on the galvanized chain which seems to help the mud fall off and minimizes the castling in the chain locker. I do not have stainless chain to compare it to, but the waxy coating makes it better. The treatment is not permanent, but is good for several months of nightly anchoring.

I'd bet a little paraffin wax and grease dissolved in Coleman fuel would work as well, but the Boeshield is available and easy to use.

Bill

[CAELESTIS]

Forget the stainless. To save weight on a boat that big, get 5/16 G70.

[KP44]

I bought a barrel of 5/16" G4 American Chain cut into one 400', one 200', and one 50' length. So I have two good all-chain rodes and a 50' piece to use if I ever want a rope rode. It was MUCH more reasonable buying by the barrel.

If interested, PM for the guy's number. If he is still in business, I highly recommend him.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by wsmurdoch

Two of the claimed advantages of stainless chain are that it sheds mud better than galvanized chain and that it does not castle as badly as galvanized chain.

I have now three times put my 100+ ft of galvanized 5/16" chain in a plastic sheeting lined cardboard box and sprayed a can of Boeshield T-9 over it moving the chain from time to time to wet all the surfaces. When dry it leaves a greasy waxy coating on the galvanized chain which seems to help the mud fall off and minimizes the castling in the chain locker. I do not have stainless chain to compare it to, but the waxy coating makes it better. The treatment is not permanent, but is good for several months of nightly anchoring.

I'd bet a little paraffin wax and grease dissolved in Coleman fuel would work as well, but the Boeshield is available and easy to use.

Bill

Never heard of that stuff. I have seen guys doctor their chain with fish oil, paraffin wax and linseed, all manner of goop but I am unfamiliar with that product. I will have to take a look at that. Probably helps to retard rust, too, for all I know. Anyway it is settled-- I am going with a 3/8" galvanized chain, the exact specification to be determined on the basis of cost/availability and windlass wildcat availability and having WLL of 5440 or better, interpolated from the ABYC table for 60kt wind and 44' boat. With a long snubber and a lot of scope. That should do me for my main rode.

[GrowleyMonster]

I assume everyone would go with 1" nylon for a combination rode? Looks like a breaking strength of 22,000lbs, new rope.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

I assume everyone would go with 1" nylon for a combination rode? Looks like a breaking strength of 22,000lbs, new rope.

Actually, the gypsy will tell you what size rope is used. Probably 5/8" 3-strand, which is a little skinny for that boat.

If you are deploying rope it is VITAL to always have at least 50' out to absorb shock. With just a few feet, it is easy to over strain the rope. The breaking strength is only about 12,000 pounds, and the working load (ABYC) about 1400 pounds. But with that much chain and rope out, the load should not exceed that. But this is one more reason people are moving to all-chain. I really did not love anchoring the PDQ from 1/2-inch rope, so I tried to stay with all-chain. Heck, I use 1/2-inch on my 24-foot trimaran (lots of windage because it is 18' wide--the load is like a 30-foot mono). It is also easier to hold.



Someone needs to design gypsies that fit the rope you really need. The higher the chain grade, the more ridiculous the mismatch becomes; they claim a winch fits G-70 chain, but the rope is the same speced for G-30, barely 1/2 as strong as it truly needs to be.

[Allied39]

After sitting out the last two hurricanes that came through FL aboard my boat on anchor I realized 'any idiot can make a boat move, the hard part is keeping it in the one spot.

Something nobody has mentioned;
Two identical boats, side by side with the same ground tackle. One has all the bits and pieces, the "florida room" (enclosed cockpit), kayaks hanging off stanchions, outboard hanging on the rail, BBQ, etc etc etc. The other is pretty much clean, all the bits and pieces stowed, no kayaks and no florida room.

As the wind increases I don't need a chart to tell me which is going to go off by herself first.

I sat these hurricanes out (after obviously picking the best place to sit considering the wind directions) on 150 ft of 5/16 BBB connected to two 3/4 rodes with another 40ft of chain each. I let out a good 100 ft of the rodes. So I was a good 290 ft away from my 35 CQR in 15 ft of water mud river bottom with 2 miles drag before I hit something.
Boat did'nt budge, but I was not happy. What if a log (there was LOADS) caught up in the rodes? Very much BAD!!
So, I purchased a new 220 ft of 5/16 BBB, I store the old 150 amidships centre low ready to haul out fairly easily for the next time. I also upgraded from a 35 to 45 CQR.
So, that puts me 370 ft away from my 45 CQR.....all chain to my boat. Some nice long snubbers and I will likely be happy. If the snubbers chafe through I end up on the chain, not likely, but possible. And still connected to my hook.


I dont have a Florida room either.
I get the comfort, happiness etc, but some of these Florida rooms stop damn near as much wind as half a mainsail.....definately more than the average trysail on a beam reach.

Just my thoughts and observations.
Good luck

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Allied39

After sitting out the last two hurricanes that came through FL aboard my boat on anchor I realized 'any idiot can make a boat move, the hard part is keeping it in the one spot.

Something nobody has mentioned;
Two identical boats, side by side with the same ground tackle. One has all the bits and pieces, the "florida room" (enclosed cockpit), kayaks hanging off stanchions, outboard hanging on the rail, BBQ, etc etc etc. The other is pretty much clean, all the bits and pieces stowed, no kayaks and no florida room.

As the wind increases I don't need a chart to tell me which is going to go off by herself first.

I sat these hurricanes out (after obviously picking the best place to sit considering the wind directions) on 150 ft of 5/16 BBB connected to two 3/4 rodes with another 40ft of chain each. I let out a good 100 ft of the rodes. So I was a good 290 ft away from my 35 CQR in 15 ft of water mud river bottom with 2 miles drag before I hit something.
Boat did'nt budge, but I was not happy. What if a log (there was LOADS) caught up in the rodes? Very much BAD!!
So, I purchased a new 220 ft of 5/16 BBB, I store the old 150 amidships centre low ready to haul out fairly easily for the next time. I also upgraded from a 35 to 45 CQR.
So, that puts me 370 ft away from my 45 CQR.....all chain to my boat. Some nice long snubbers and I will likely be happy. If the snubbers chafe through I end up on the chain, not likely, but possible. And still connected to my hook.


I dont have a Florida room either.
I get the comfort, happiness etc, but some of these Florida rooms stop damn near as much wind as half a mainsail.....definately more than the average trysail on a beam reach.

Just my thoughts and observations.
Good luck

Please, could you explain your use of the term rode, I am under the impression that it refers to the connection between the anchor and the vessel, be it all chain, all rope or a combination of both.
Perhaps I am confused, please explain.

[Jim Cate]

Growley, now that you have opted for a windlass, I'd suggest forgoing the rope part and just buy 80-100 m of chain. In the long run, you will be glad you did, for dealing with a mixed rode in nasty conditions ain't much fun, and can be kinda dangerous. Your Roberst will never notice the difference in weight in t he chain locker... they are load carriers, and there are heaps of them out cruising with all chain in the locker.

FWIW, our boat is considerably lighter than the Roberts and has a much finer entry. We have ~80 m of 10 mm and a 60 lb anchor up forward and notice no serious side effects from the weight... no hobby horsing, etc. and the fore part of the boat is on her lines.

I hate to say it, but there are some folks here on CF who get a bit hyperventilated when talking about weight in the bow. Sure, you want to avoid overdoing it, but I'm sure that Mr Roberts thought about carrying chain when he drew the lines... no dummy, he!

Jim