ABI Manual Windlass Manual?

[MCilenti]

Ahoy All!
We just bought our first (and dream) boat- a Bristol Channel Cutter.

She has a single speed ABI manual windlass...but it's been hard to find a manual. She needs some love and just want to be sure we get it all correct.

If anyone has a copy of the manual I'd really appreciate it. I've attached a photo and the only info I have on it.

Cheers,
Mike

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Mike.


I don't know if you'll find much more than you've got.


The ABI Windlass may have been a copy of a Plath Windlass.
Plath ➥ http://www.rcplathco.com/products/marine_parts.html

See also ➥ http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ass-21282.html

[Alan Mighty]

Congratulations on buying a BCC, Mike!

I'm not certain that ABI Marine provided a manual for that windlass - or more correctly I should say that I'm reasonably confident that ABI Marine did not provide a downloadable version of the manual on their website.

If you use the Internet Archive (aka Wayback Machine), you can find that windlass still featured on the now extinct abimarine.com website as recently as June 2007. But no links to a manual. See for yourself: https://web.archive.org/web/20070614...ges/200012.htm

Don't expect many images to display. If you work through the archive for abimarine.com, you will find some images from other dates.

You may well have other ABI Marine products on board. I've seen BCCs with gorgeous ABI teak & bronze blocks (used for the mainsheet tackle and as turning blocks on the jib and staysail sheets and the staysail halyard), bronze portlight frames, bronze fittings for the boom gallows, and a Highfield lever on the forestay (the cutter stay, the stay on which the staysail is hanked).

I was never clear which of the ABI products were imported and which were made in the US. Quality seemed quite acceptable.

And you might want to try to contact the former principals of ABI Marine. The firm started as A & B Industries, founded by Andy Popenoe and his spouse Becky Sari' Poponoe. A & B for Andy and Becky. Both Andy and Becky were prone to using variant names. And their corporation (and its names) evolved, sometimes including the initials of one or more children and by 2007 paired with Precision Lighting.

I think you'll find Andy still living in California, a healthy and active 79 year old. I suspect you'd find him on Facebook and other places.

[MCilenti]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the information. Alan- Definitely appreciate the great leads...I'll see what I can find by running that down.
Cheers,
Mike

[OZwingle]

Mike,


Congrats on the BCC. If the windlass is a copy of the RC Plath (it sure looks like it, and imitation is the sincerest form of flattery), I can offer this:

I have an original RC Plath on Velic, a Jason 35. I bought this windlass new from RC Plath in Portland Oregon.

Our windlass is incredibly tough. The bronze gears are massive. I hope the ABI didn't skimp on that aspect. If the copy is true to design, it's a great manual windlass. Far better than some of the more common makes.

There is no manual. The windlass is so simple that it was probably not even thought about way back then. A perfect piece of gear for the BCC.

The following is from my personal recollection. When I was a teenager in Sea Scouts, Robert A. Smith was on of our mentors. I have fond memories of sailing and of long discussions with him. He humored my endless pestering questions about boat design. The windlass was designed by Robert A. Stephens N.A. when employed at Albina Machine Works in Portland. Probably in the years just after WWII.

To understand the windlass: Mark Forward! on the housing with a markie or tape, and dismount from the foredeck. Dedicate a lazy morning to exploratory disassembly, preferably on a comfortable shop bench. Prepare to take a number of 'technical photos' and make some shop drawings. The chain gypsy comes off by simple unscrewing the clutch - on the right with the slots for the handle. Note the shaft key. The rope drum comes off by loosening the set screw found in a hole in the drum. Note the shaft key. On the Plath it's an SAE set screw. I don't know about the ABI - might be metric grub screw? Explore, but don't strip the set screw.

Turn the windlass upside down and slowly disassemble as you document the arrangement and orientation of parts. There aren't that many, but orientation is critical. Most parts are held in place on the main shaft by set screws. The idler shafts are held in place by set screws in the main body, accessed from the bottom. The idler gears rotate on those shafts. You will find the holes, but they might be plugged with caulked or dirt. The main shaft is held in place by the chain gypsy and rope drum, because it must rotate. There are no springs. It's all gravity action, and very clever for that simplicity.

Note the friction surfaces to lubricate. DO NOT lubricate the friction ring or its contact surfaces. It will look like a brake pad. Clean and reassemble. Test on the bench!! It should wind in chain or rope on both strokes of the handle. If you got it wrong, it will lock up and not move on either forward or back stroke. Or only wind on the back stroke, as though it was a single action windlass.

I added lubrication points with grease zerks. A simple custom upgrade that really helps in maintenance. I can lubricate the windlass without removing it from the foredeck. Let me know if you're interested in how this is done.

I hope this helps. Cheers.
Rand
s/v Velic
Vuda Point, Fiji

[MCilenti]

Rand,

Wow! Thanks so much for all of the thoughts.
1. Yes, if you have details about how/where you put the zerks that would be great.
2. Stupid question- which direction is it to loosen the brake? I assume it was reverse thread (otherwise you're trying to raise the anchor with little resistance to break free the brake), but mine appears to be stuck and I'm having a bear of a time getting it free.

I assumed it would be easier to break it free while it was still on the boat, since it's secure and I have leverage, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Any help, given your extensive experience, would be great!
Cheers and thanks again!,
Mike

[gjordan]

A consignment shop in Alameda Calif. bought out the remaining supplies of ABI. They might have some information "Blue Pelican Consignment" 510-769-4858. I hope it helps. Grant.

[OZwingle]

Mike,


Apologies for such a late reply. We've been off-boat for a bit.



How are you doing with the windlass?

Are you still interested in customizing lubrication and zirc placement? I am happy to show what we did, if it might be useful.


Rand

[MCilenti]

Rand,
Thanks for checking in.

I've been spraying PB Blaster on the clutch side of the windlass each weekend we go out to see if we can break it free. Unfortunately, the end of the stainless handle has started to crack from trying to get it to break free, so that will need to be replaced. So, I haven't taken any more drastic action - since it's still winter I feel like we still have time, which is nice.

Yes- if you have some info about the modifications you've made I would definitely appreciate that. Thanks!

Cheers,
Mike

[OZwingle]

Mike,


I can't tell by your photo which direction is forward. But I will assume that the chain gypsy is to starboard and the rope drum to port, as is traditional. If so, then the clutch nut threads are right-hand, not reverse.


First, loosening the clutch nut on the chain gypsy is done by a counter-clockwise rotation (if on starboard side). When the handle is in the clutch nut, pull the top of the handle aft to loosen. There is a toggle, or dog, that engages indents in the chain gypsy to keep it from spinning while loosening the nut (see image #4, it's hanging down loose). These indents are obvious in the photo of your windlass on the gypsy near the body. Engage this dog by hand, while turning the whole gypsy/nut counter-clockwise.



The counter-clockwise direction to loosen is so that when the chain is falling free, the gypsy does not spin the nut off the shaft. Tighten in a clockwise motion. Try using a dead blow hammer against the handle just above the slot in the nut. Many small taps, not big blows. This minimizes spring back in the handle itself. Heat on the body of the nut might help expand the bronze and break the corrosion. Propane torch used judiciously and repeated heat/cool cycles might help. You might find a suitable flat bar to use, instead of the handle itself, for this exercise.

There are three shafts: the main shaft onto which the rope drum and gypsy are mounted. Two idler shafts that allow for the double action; it pulls up on both directions of the handle stroke, but at one speed. There are 2 grease Zercs in the main shaft. A grease passage is bored from each end down the center of the shaft - not all the way. And a grease outlet is bored from the side of the shaft at the point of its two bearings in the case. Also a second grease outlet is bored where the handle crank runs on the main shaft, coming from the rope drum Zerc I think. These Zercs are counter-bored (recessed) into the main shaft so that the rope drum and gypsy clutch nut fit well.

There is a Zerc on each of the two lower idler bearing shafts. These are on the starboard side, under the chain gypsy. Again, horizontal bore down the center of the shaft, and a grease outlet in from the side where the idler bearings run. These need not be counter-bored, as they are under the chain gypsy.

These modifications allow for lubricating the windlass without removing it from deck, and without pouring oil randomly through the handle slot and hoping it get to the right places ( and then runs out all over the deck ).


I hope this helps. Be patient and good luck.
Rand

[MCilenti]

Sorry for the delay Rand...I just saw your post. Thank you for the extensive information; the photos make it very clear.


Some time soaking in PB Blaster got the brake unstuck and it's been working like a champ. I plan to go through the full disassembly you recommend this winter.


Thanks again!
Cheers,
Mike

[SailorMcCruise]

Hello Mike,
came across this old post while servicing my ABI windlass.
I guess the grease zerks yould make life easier.
Where did you put them?

Thanks

Originally Posted by OZwingle

Mike,


Congrats on the BCC. If the windlass is a copy of the RC Plath (it sure looks like it, and imitation is the sincerest form of flattery), I can offer this:

I have an original RC Plath on Velic, a Jason 35. I bought this windlass new from RC Plath in Portland Oregon.

Our windlass is incredibly tough. The bronze gears are massive. I hope the ABI didn't skimp on that aspect. If the copy is true to design, it's a great manual windlass. Far better than some of the more common makes.

There is no manual. The windlass is so simple that it was probably not even thought about way back then. A perfect piece of gear for the BCC.

The following is from my personal recollection. When I was a teenager in Sea Scouts, Robert A. Smith was on of our mentors. I have fond memories of sailing and of long discussions with him. He humored my endless pestering questions about boat design. The windlass was designed by Robert A. Stephens N.A. when employed at Albina Machine Works in Portland. Probably in the years just after WWII.

To understand the windlass: Mark Forward! on the housing with a markie or tape, and dismount from the foredeck. Dedicate a lazy morning to exploratory disassembly, preferably on a comfortable shop bench. Prepare to take a number of 'technical photos' and make some shop drawings. The chain gypsy comes off by simple unscrewing the clutch - on the right with the slots for the handle. Note the shaft key. The rope drum comes off by loosening the set screw found in a hole in the drum. Note the shaft key. On the Plath it's an SAE set screw. I don't know about the ABI - might be metric grub screw? Explore, but don't strip the set screw.

Turn the windlass upside down and slowly disassemble as you document the arrangement and orientation of parts. There aren't that many, but orientation is critical. Most parts are held in place on the main shaft by set screws. The idler shafts are held in place by set screws in the main body, accessed from the bottom. The idler gears rotate on those shafts. You will find the holes, but they might be plugged with caulked or dirt. The main shaft is held in place by the chain gypsy and rope drum, because it must rotate. There are no springs. It's all gravity action, and very clever for that simplicity.

Note the friction surfaces to lubricate. DO NOT lubricate the friction ring or its contact surfaces. It will look like a brake pad. Clean and reassemble. Test on the bench!! It should wind in chain or rope on both strokes of the handle. If you got it wrong, it will lock up and not move on either forward or back stroke. Or only wind on the back stroke, as though it was a single action windlass.

I added lubrication points with grease zerks. A simple custom upgrade that really helps in maintenance. I can lubricate the windlass without removing it from the foredeck. Let me know if you're interested in how this is done.

I hope this helps. Cheers.
Rand
s/v Velic
Vuda Point, Fiji