Active Anchoring

[sailorboy1]

I've stayed up all night with the engine running during a blow while on anchor. I don't if this is "active anchoring" or "run for it prep".

I would except everything except yawning and going back to sleep could be considered active anchoring.

[wingless]

Originally Posted by wingless

My all-chain rode is marked w/ the (in)famous wingless trinary color code chain marking system to permit a visual observation to confirm the deployed rode length. (Please send $10 to my Paypal account if adopting this chain marking system).

Originally Posted by Greenhand

We tried using a system like that on your trailer sailor. Neither of us could remember what the colors meant, then the thread that I used to whip the colors in the anchor rode faded.

The two-digit sequence is easy to remember, red - white - blue.

This makes nine marks. My rode is 200', so I've got marks every 20'.

[ontherocks83]

Originally Posted by colemj

Over 30kts, the wind noise usually wakes us. By us, I mean Michele, who then wakes me and makes me check things so that she knows everything is OK. I already know everything is OK and being wakened annoys me. She could do this herself, but she is too busy sleeping while I do it. She then gets annoyed when I wake her to tell her everything is OK. Since we have both been mutually annoyed by being awakened for no reason, we call it a draw. I don't understand this, but it makes sense in her world...

I see a new thread starting

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

OP--It sounds like your "active anchoring" is actually just a knee-jerk reaction from dealing with woefully inadequate anchoring gear and/or technique. Perhaps your anchor and rode are too light for your boat? Style of anchor not matched to bottom conditions? Too short a catenary? Not enough chain?

No. As a charter/delivery captain I've run many different boats, with many varieties of gear, in many venues, in many weather conditions. When running to a schedule (something to never do cruising) you can't always cherry pick your anchorage or weather conditions or gear.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by ElGatoGordo

My experience level is extremely low in this regard, maybe 20 nights on the hook. But I always get up about every 2 hours in settled weather, every hour or less in unsettled, to check position. And I use an anchor watch in Open CPN and/or my phone depending on the paranoia level.

Perhaps I'll get more comfortable? So far I've never even thought about sleep until I was VERY comfortable that I wasn't going to drag...usually a few hours.

Wow, that carries "active" to a whole new level. I figure once you collapse from fatigue you will sleep a lot better at anchor. ;-)

I naturally wake up when the weather/boat changes but otherwise sleep soundly. I set an anchor alarm (these days on my smart phone which easily gets thru the night on battery. great app.) as a backup. Ive watched bareboat charters sleep right thru their boat dragging and going aground. Can't fathom how someone could do that. They didn't notice till they got up for a late breakfast. They were in no real danger so I just watched the show.

That would go beyond my definition of even "passive" anchoring...maybe "apathetic" would be more accurate.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

First, find a spot where you will have enough room to swing. Then, SET THE HOOK, make sure you give it a prolonged steady pull, finish veering out the chain [we use at least 3:1, all chain] attach snubber, and then back down hard, again [for us this is at 2200 rpm using our folding prop].
...
Ann

My assumption when orginally posting that all proper preparation (from ground tackle selection to setting the hook) had all been done, but its an easy extension from "active" to "proactive" (As I would call these techniques) and think its relevant to the discussion.

I follow a similar routine to yours. Back down gradually but hard to set the hook deep and test its hold. On my boat, I consider 2,000 RPM on both engines a good solid set. I arrived at this conclusion by being in the water diving the anchor while having someone else throttle up in reverse. At about 2,000 RPM, most of the cantenary is pulled out of the chain and anchor is well loaded. That's a bit over half throttle in my case and more load than I would normally see at anchor. This either sets it deep (usually) or drags it. I would much rather drag it myself, and have to reset, than have the 0230 squall do it for me.

Even on all chain I prefer a 7:1 scope, but 5:1 all chain seems to perform well too. If expecting unsettled weather I prefer to lay down more scope, up to about 10:1, if feasible.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup

I have run the engine occasionally, leaving it idling in neutral, in situations where ANY drag would require immediate response, probably due to dangers to leeward, or where the engine was not a guaranteed, immediate-start proposition, or was unable to develop full thrust immediately and reliably without warming.

I can remember a few occasions when a small minority of the williwaws reaching the boat were maybe 20-30% stronger than the prevailing maximum. In such cases, if the system is already near the limit, I have had good results from applying forward thrust DURING the gust, but tapering off as the gust did, so there is no issue with surge or recoil.

I too typically just have the engines cranked and ready if a strong squall seems eminent. I've done most if my sailing around Gulf of Mexico States (Texas - Florida) and in the Western Carib. In all of these venues, especially in the summer months, intense local squalls are common. I think that weather characteristic contributed heavily to my "active" anchoring habits. Ive experienced dramatic increase in wind speed in these squalls many times (both at anchor and underway)...in two cases into the 80-90 knot range and inumerable times well over 30 into the 40+ knots range. No way I could sleep thru that anyway so might as well be up doing something...even if its just standing anchor watch.

Obviously, using the engines must be done judiciously so as not to just in effect induce more loading on the ground tackle. This is easier to accomplish with twin engines. I like to think I do a good job of this, having never pulled a hook loose this way, but would be interesting to see a video clip taken from a good vantage point.

I have had hooks come unset entirely on me before (mostly while running charter/delivery boats with less than ideal ground tackle set ups) in unstable wearher. Had the engines already started so just went walk about till it settled down then re-anchored. Much better tactic I think than scrambling above decks as you pick up momentum down wind.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by colemj

We differ a bit on this than you.

First, we try never to get into an "active anchoring" situation (I'm sure you do also!). We have left anchorages because we didn't like the bottom or were not comfortable with swing room, etc. However, often times this is unavoidable.

...

Mark

My strategy too, but as you say, its not always avoidable. Arriving early is a good strategy for avoiding this situation in the first place. Especially if an unafamiliar anchorage or a popular one that might be crowded. This way you have time to work on getting a good set and/or relocating to a better anchorage.

But of course it does not always work out that way and I've spent a few restless nights at anchor as a result.

[sailorboy1]

I've only drug anchor seriously once. That was my first boat with a CQR anchor when a gale blew in. And during that while I was blowing toward the breakwater that at the time met rocks to break my boat on, the engine didn't want to start.

It has taken years to get over the event, if I even have.

I bet you don't really learn anything till sh*t happens and you get to reflect on it.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I've only drug anchor seriously once. That was my first boat with a CQR anchor when a gale blew in. And during that while I was blowing toward the breakwater that at the time met rocks to break my boat on, the engine didn't want to start.

It has taken years to get over the event, if I even have.

I bet you don't really learn anything till sh*t happens and you get to reflect on it.

Case in point for why I like to fire mine up in advance. The one time I really need them quickly will be the time they don't want to start.

Lin and Larry Pardey, in Cruising Serafyn, relate a similar situation, but of course they had no engine and fortunately their hook held...because sailing out of that one was not feasible.

I assume you did not go up on the rocks?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Case in point for why I like to fire mine up in advance. There was no warning and was a 2am run around the boat in your underwear eventThe one time I really need them quickly will be the time they don't want to start. That is why everyone should know how to jump their starter with a screwdriver in case the start button doesn't work


I assume you did not go up on the rocks? no

There is a longer story verison that involves my wife ripping out her thumb nail and bleeding all over the boat during the panic.

But right about the time I got the engine started we had blown past the rocks missing them and the anchor caught. So I let out a lot more rode and stayed up all night in case the wind direction changed because that would put me on the rocks. And we left the engine running all night!

[belizesailor]

Underwear? Damn, is this another one of those things "real" cruisers are supposed to have? Can't run around in a panic in mine since I haven't even owned any since 2001! :-P

Rough night, but at least you missed the rocks.

[ElGatoGordo]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Wow, that carries "active" to a whole new level. I figure once you collapse from fatigue you will sleep a lot better at anchor. ;-)

Yeah, I'm just inexperienced. I've never dragged, and only had 2 times where the wind got up into the 40s, but my boat has a LOT of windage

Edit: I don't sleep very well normally anyway, I work nights and switch day sleeping for night sleeping every 3 or 4 days...so maybe I'll never sleep well again lol

BTW you handled TN's childish slam well. I think this is a worthy thread if people will simply read the opening post to realize this conversation starts AFTER all the proper techniques and equipment have been employed. (OR...in a case where these things are not possible? Delivery, or post theft maybe) What could be worse than saying "I've got all the right equipment and I'm in the right place so I have no need to pay attention, I'll NEVER drag." Which is what TN said.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by colemj

We differ a bit on this than you.

First, we try never to get into an "active anchoring" situation (I'm sure you do also!). We have left anchorages because we didn't like the bottom or were not comfortable with swing room, etc. However, often times this is unavoidable.

If the bottom is good, we set the anchor very hard and check to make sure it is set well in good substrate. And we trust our anchor (won't tell here which anchor we have because that will derail the thread quickly). To be honest, if this point is met, we sleep right through winds up to 30kts because we know from experience we will not move an inch.

Over 30kts, the wind noise usually wakes us. By us, I mean Michele, who then wakes me and makes me check things so that she knows everything is OK. I already know everything is OK and being wakened annoys me. She could do this herself, but she is too busy sleeping while I do it. She then gets annoyed when I wake her to tell her everything is OK. Since we have both been mutually annoyed by being awakened for no reason, we call it a draw. I don't understand this, but it makes sense in her world...

Uh, where was I? Oh yes - the engine. When things get really rough, I turn on the engines but have yet to need to put them in gear. The engines are on solely for options - particularly if there are a lot of boats in the anchorage, and specifically if they are French charter boats

Here, I think people make a mistake. I have watched many boats put their engines in gear and try to dynamically help the anchor by taking force off the rode. In all cases, I have watched them rubber-band back and forth on the rode - with the bow falling significantly off the wind when the rode is slack, and the rode coming up bar tight when the boat falls back on it. Only to reinforce the helmsman's idea that he needs to use the engines to take the slack off the rode.

We have sat right beside boats that rubber-band up and down using their engines during strong blows and every time we discuss the weather afterwards, they are convinced they sat perfectly still and straight on their rodes while taking the major strain off the rode - while I have watched them move up and down their rodes 30-40' and falling off the wind and snatching back up hard. In a few of the cases, the boats have broken free of their anchor, and I am convinced it was because of the dynamics they imposed on their situation with the engine.

If predicted bad weather, then we hide like you. Again, if the bottom is good and the anchor is well set, then we sleep. We have never set an anchor alarm, and somehow naturally seem to become fully awake if the boat swings 90* or more in a shift. Other than situationally being in the cockpit or cabin for checking things out, we have not spent any nights specifically on anchor watch.

We have been in some pretty bad anchorages with winds at 40kts (not counting random short-term squalls with higher winds), but have learned to trust our anchor gear and anchoring technique. This is easier in places where you can see your anchor set while standing on the bow. It isn't so easy to trust when in opaque water with unknown bottom.

Mark

Mark, this is probably the best post I've ever read on this forum. The section in bold is a perfect example of couples relationships on the boat. Cracks me up. Thanks. The rest is good too.

As far as starting motor(s), IMO if you are engaging the motors in forward it's to retrieve the anchor for a reset. I can't see that, even with a cat, you can effectively use your motors to "hold" the boat for any period of time in conditions that cause proper ground tackle to not hold.

[charliehows]

I reckon i could use a 25lb anchor on this boat and it would be sufficient. But, because i've actually got a 45lb anchor, it just never moves. Never. So - if you can handle it, go big and heavy. I do have a 25lb danforth on short chain and rope for quick and easy short stops - come to think of it, that doesnt move either...