All Chain Rode . . . Overkill ?

[svcambria]

I believe CraigSmith got it right, all length 5/16" G40 ought to do. As for length, it depends on where and in what conditions you anchor; also on how long you wish to use that chain (longer lengths can be inverted, end-for-end, to extend their lifetime by a factor of about two), and it is nice to know you can put out as much as seems comfortable and get it back easily with one kind of rode.
Another consideration is what kind of gypsy you have; changing them can be very expensive.
Lastly, buying in bulk (whole drums or half drums) will be immensely cheaper than buying by the foot (check out Peerless dealers near you). See if you can go in with someone else and split a drum of chain. I ordered a drum (400') of 3/8" G43 galvanized Acco chain from Peerless a few years ago for $900. I asked how much 300' would be - they said $900. They didn't want the hassle of measuring and cutting and storing the unsold part, but were quite happy to forklift the barrel into my truck - took about 24 seconds...

Michael

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by RSMacG

but is all-chain overkill?

Really we can't give you an answer until we know what sort of cruising you are going to do.

If you are going liveaboard cruising in the pacific you absolutely need lots of chain. I happen to think you can get away with 150' in the pacific (and did so on our first boat) but you will be happier and safer with 300'.

On the other-hand if you are doing weekend cruising and a perhaps a weeks during the summer in the PNW, and want to mix in some racing, then 6' of chain and some high quality of nylon would do the job.

On both boats we have always split our chain, store half in the bilge in the center of the boat, and normally operate with the other half (75' on the small boat and 150' in the big boat) and then when we get somewhere with serious coral or other anchoring issues we add the second length of chain. This has seemed to us like an effective compromise/solution to the dilemma, but no-one else we know does it so its probably stupid

[svcambria]

when we get somewhere with serious coral or other anchoring issues we add the second length of chain. This has seemed to us like an effective compromise/solution to the dilemma

Estarzinger,

I would love to do this but how do you connect the two lengths? Everything I looked at had a significantly lower strength than the chain. I wound up installing a 2.5" hose from the chain locker to the bilge by my mast to transfer the weight of unused chain (200' out of 400') to keep it "whole"; transferring it is an effort (guess it would be an effort connected to the rest or not).

Michael

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by svcambria

Estarzinger,

I would love to do this but how do you connect the two lengths? Everything I looked at had a significantly lower strength than the chain. I wound up installing a 2.5" hose from the chain locker to the bilge by my mast to transfer the weight of unused chain (200' out of 400') to keep it "whole"; transferring it is an effort (guess it would be an effort connected to the rest or not).

Michael

We use a connecting link thru the end links backed up by a spectra lashing thru the next to end links.

The connecting link is in theory weaker than my HT chain, but in 15 years of cruising it has never broken or distorted, even in Hurricane lenny when our massive stainless anchor swivel distorted.

But in any case the spectra lashing is stronger than the chain and will pick up the load if the connecting link distorts or fails.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

We use a connecting link thru the end links backed up by a spectra lashing thru the next to end links.

The connecting link is in theory weaker than my HT chain, but in 15 years of cruising it has never broken or distorted, even in Hurricane lenny when our massive stainless anchor swivel distorted.

But in any case the spectra lashing is stronger than the chain and will pick up the load if the connecting link distorts or fails.

G'Day Evans,

Interesting idea!

By connecting link do you mean the sort that is two "C" shaped bits with inbuilt rivets that you hammer together? We too have used these for years without failure, but there is so much negative press about them that I've sometimes wondered...

And the spectra lashings (a neat solution) -- does this feed trhough the gypsy OK? We have an issue with chain hanging up and jamming in the chain pipe where it makes the bend downward, and I'd be concerned about adding to this problem. (It's a Maxwell vcr-1500,by the way). Could you describe the type of lashing you use, please?

Thanks for the idea.

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Manly, Qld Oz

C

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

By connecting link do you mean the sort that is two "C" shaped bits with inbuilt rivets that you hammer together?

YEs, exactly. But we don't hammer the rivits. I use monel wire (4 pieces) and tightly wire the links shut (twice wrapped around and then twisted tight). That way I can take it apart - probably in theory this weakens the link even more, but we have not have any failure and we always have the spectra backup.


And the spectra lashings (a neat solution) -- does this feed trhough the gypsy OK? We have an issue with chain hanging up and jamming in the chain pipe where it makes the bend downward, and I'd be concerned about adding to this problem.

It causes zero problem with our gypsy (lewmar V4 running 3/8" chain). The only downside is that the lashing can bring up quite a bit of mud.

I take a piece if 6mm spectra single braid (8,500lbs tensile strength) and bring it around twice (so there are 4 strands taking the load = 34000lbs tensile = the weight of our boat!) and then do an end to end splice. You could knot it and that would cut the strength by about 25% (not 50% because of the two turns around) which is still strong enough, but I like the splice. Its a bit loose, so I think just gets pushed out of the way in the gypsy.

Hope that helps

[Sabbatical II]

Originally Posted by RSMacG

A bit off topic, I know, but I was in the shop yesterday to measure out the Rocna to try to determine whether the 20kg option will fit, when I noticed the "Made in China" sticker. Normally, this probably wouldn't have registered (what isn't?), but I remember forum members posting in the past whether a particular anchor was made in (I think) Canada or in China. Should I be concerned? Source another made in North America?

Cheers,
Rob

If you search these forums there have been other threads on Chinese made Rocnas. I too was very concerned because they were originally made in New Zealand and then Canada. The usual reason to manufacture in China was to reduce the price of manufacture, certainly not to increase product quality. With other high end items I have paid dearly for the savings made by Chinese manufacture. Reputedly there were some terrible Rocnas coming out of China before Rocna realised their reputation was going to go down the drain and therefore their business.

I believe the following to be the case now with Rocna, but do your own research. All Rocnas are now made in China! The early ones that were terrible had a "Made in China" sticker on them and some of these may have been knock-offs. The latter ones have the words "Rocna" forged in large letters and then "Genuine Rocna" and the size forged into the widest part of the blade. These ones also have the normal Rocna sticker on the shank. After doing my research and finding out the above, I bought a 25kg Rocna and insited that it came with the forgings on the blade in case they had some old-stock without the forgings. The anchor that came had all the correct forgings as advised and it's workmanship looks 100%. I don't think I have ever seen better welds. I can't tell you how it holds because it's going on a new boat that is currently under construction (not in China). Even if it won't hold, it will sure look the part sitting up on my bow roller.

Greg

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

We use a connecting link thru the end links backed up by a spectra lashing thru the next to end links.

.

We use similar but instead of specra have 1 foot of extra chain that we shackle with thin shackles before and after the link.
It wont go through the windlass.


Evans does the specra go through the windlas OK or do you take it off?

[marlers]

Hi Rob
We use a 45# CQR and 300' of 5/16 HT on Morning Star our CT 34 this works well and the weight isn't a problem. we carry 100' chain and 500' 5/8 nylon for our 35# CQR secondary anchor, this all fits fine in the chain locker the secondary rode is stored in front of the sampson posts.

Steve

[SabreKai]

I'm considering going all chain on Espie, and the concensus seems to be 5/16 grade 40 for a 34 footer with full keel and 16,000lbs.

Espie is 31 feet, full keel with about 15,500lbs. I'm figuring on 300 feet which would give me 45 feet of usable depth at 5:1 scope. Weight in the bow will be about 300lbs. The anchor is currently a 35lb CQR

Any concerns with my analysis?


Sabre

[ggray]

these would be stronger, but would need to be helped over gypsey. Pictured ones are not galvanised, but i believe I've bought second one as galvanised.

All-Lifts, Inc.Chain connecting link
Twin Clevis Link Connecting link S249--Toolee Group™--China Rigging Lifting Manufacturer

[Mark Zarley]

I do not get the argument over saving 100 lbs of bow weight, I mean that is the weight of a middle age boy. What do you have below decks forward that is not essential? Your anchors holding depends on that chain staying on the bottom. And so do you. Just sayin

[cfarrar]

My understanding is that chain rode is for durability, not strength or holding power. If you're cruising in tropical waters where coral heads can chew up your anchor rode, then a long section of chain, or even all chain, makes sense. Same if you're on an extended cruise, away from civilization, and you need your rode to last for a long time, with absolutely no chafe, like in the remote Pacific or an arctic expedition. For those of us cruising in non-tropical climes, however, an all-chain rode doesn't make much sense. The nylon rode is just as strong, and it's much lighter. 150-200 lbs doesn't seem like much sitting at anchor, but when your bow is plunging into a steep ocean wave, or burying itself into a deep trough, it's a different story. Meanwhile, if you want increased holding power, put a little bit of that weight into a larger anchor instead, and make it a next generation design, while you're at it. My 2 cents.

[cfarrar]

By the way, that's a cool idea - adding a section of chain with a link that can go over the windlass. Thanks, estarzinger.

[svcambria]

Originally Posted by SabreKai

Espie is 31 feet, full keel with about 15,500lbs. I'm figuring on 300 feet which would give me 45 feet of usable depth at 5:1 scope. Weight in the bow will be about 300lbs. The anchor is currently a 35lb CQR

Any concerns with my analysis?

Sabre

only to consider going with 275 feet of 5/16" - then you can shop for a half drum at the chain supply places rather than chandleries...

Michael