Anchor / Chain / Boat sizing

[Tayana42]

Iaika, the Vancouver 27 is a beautiful boat. I have a Vancouver 42 built by Tayana, big sister to your boat.

Yours is a very substantial vessel, not comparable with most production coastal sailboats. Stronger and more heavily built, as your description of your backing plates attests. She can take you anywhere you are capable of taking her.

Your ground tackle should be substantial to match your vessel. I've gone to a new generation anchor and couldn't be happier. We chose a 55 lb Rocna, 300 ft of 3/8 inch G4 chain, substantial snubbers and a windless to make anchoring as safe and secure as possible. Of course this is a bigger boat. But I strongly recommend any of the new gen anchors and as much chain as you can manage.

Fair winds and good sailing on your Vancouver!


S/V B'Shert

[laika]

Originally Posted by Tayana42

Iaika, the Vancouver 27 is a beautiful boat. I have a Vancouver 42 built by Tayana, big sister to your boat.

Yours is a very substantial vessel, not comparable with most production coastal sailboats. Stronger and more heavily built, as your description of your backing plates attests. She can take you anywhere you are capable of taking her.

Your ground tackle should be substantial to match your vessel. I've gone to a new generation anchor and couldn't be happier. We chose a 55 lb Rocna, 300 ft of 3/8 inch G4 chain, substantial snubbers and a windless to make anchoring as safe and secure as possible. Of course this is a bigger boat. But I strongly recommend any of the new gen anchors and as much chain as you can manage.

Fair winds and good sailing on your Vancouver!


S/V B'Shert

I've translated into a bit of varnish and boatspeak today and the boat thanks you. Praise is always readily soaked up by the vessel

If I ever have kids a larger vancouver will be the top of the list.

[groundtackle]

What about chain strength. I've got 300' of 5/16 and an 80 lb SARCA Excell. I feel like the chain is undersized.
I also have a 30lb Bruce and 100 ' of 1/2" on my stern windlass
Boat is 46' 30,000 lbs

Nick


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[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by nshawdvm

What about chain strength. I've got 300' of 5/16 and an 80 lb SARCA Excell. I feel like the chain is undersized.
Boat is 46' 30,000 lbs

Nick


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Unless it's grade 70 chain, I'd agree it's undersized, maybe on the edge for grade 40?

Now having said all that I've yet to meet someone who parted their chain that was in good shape, and I believe burst strength for grade 40 5/16 is 12'000 lbs? Can that anchor bury itself enough to not drag at that kind of pull? Hanging up in rock it could of course


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[model 10]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

e burst strength for grade 40 5/16 is 12'000 lbs? Can that anchor bury itself enough to not drag at that kind of pull? Hanging up in rock it could of course
Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Remember your chain is not new forever. By the time you give it away it will only maybe hold your boat, no way would it hold 12k.

[groundtackle]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Unless it's grade 70 chain, I'd agree it's undersized, maybe on the edge for grade 40?

Now having said all that I've yet to meet someone who parted their chain that was in good shape, and I believe burst strength for grade 40 5/16 is 12'000 lbs? Can that anchor bury itself enough to not drag at that kind of pull? Hanging up in rock it could of course


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Thanks I kinda thought so. My short term plans won't stress it too much and it's in good shape so I'll live with it for the time being but before I go cruising in the South Pacific (if it ever happens) I'll replace it.
How do I tell if it's g70 vs g40 vs???
Nick


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[evm1024]

Originally Posted by nshawdvm

Thanks I kinda thought so. My short term plans won't stress it too much and it's in good shape so I'll live with it for the time being but before I go cruising in the South Pacific (if it ever happens) I'll replace it.
How do I tell if it's g70 vs g40 vs???
Nick


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Should have marking on the links (or every few)

g7, g70, p7 are all G70

g43 is g43

HT is a g 40 chain too

Photo of g40 here: http://www.cruisingworld.com/how/you...g-anchor-chain

[groundtackle]

Ok I'll check that out
Thanks


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[Spade Anchor]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Others have already explained this philosophy, but in general, one never can be sure that during a period at anchor one might suddenly need the larger anchor due to a change in conditions. This is a lousy time to be dragging that rusty storm anchor out of the bilge and trying to rig it usefully.

Put your best bower on the bow and use it all the time. If it is too heavy to recover in normal use, just think how hard it will be to recover when dug i n by storm force winds!

Jim

Could not agree with Jim more on this. Your primary anchor should also be your storm anchor. When your lucky enough or smart enough to have time to prep for a storm one of the last things you want to be doing is changing out an anchor. When choosing an anchor, the anchor should be capable of holding your boat in a storm or during a nice lunch. Anchoring should be boring, if your anchor plans involve excitement then you have the wrong anchor.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by Spade Anchor

. Anchoring should be boring, if your anchor plans involve excitement then you have the wrong anchor.

Isn't that a crock statement. You might say that if you have never been anywhere or maybe just selling anchors . More often than not, anchoring is very interesting not "boring". Your motto must be "you can treat all anchoring situations like a lunch stop because the Spade holds, regardless".

[Bulawayo]

I read Spade Anchors postings differently; I understood that he meant that once you were anchored there should be no drama subsequently. That meant no changing the anchor or supplementing your arrangement due to circumstances changing. Spade anchor did not acticely promote any specific product. I met a fellow some thirty years ago living on his boat in Cape Town and was flying a Belgium flag - a well travelled yottie you might have thought. He had bought the boat in Cape Town. He also gave us his anchoring wisdom - including how he would anchor in 30 meters of open water whilst using 30meters of chain. He could not understand why we looked at him strangely.
I have been criticised on this forum previously for espousing what Jim has reinforced; always use a so called storm sized anchor as your standard. To my mind, arm chair sailors shall leap up and flap their arms around whilst shouting 'ridiculous'. Those people know who they are just as do the many actual sailors ...... they give themselves away by being critical of others constantly whilst they refer to their own deep knowledge (their own belief, not commonly shared) gained from other knowledgeable arm chair sailor's postings.
Oh yes, this latter comments does not apply to Guy......it is a generic comment that is meant for the persistent naysayers.

Originally Posted by Guy

Isn't that a crock statement. You might say that if you have never been anywhere or maybe just selling anchors . More often than not, anchoring is very interesting not "boring". Your motto must be "you can treat all anchoring situations like a lunch stop because the Spade holds, regardless".

[Spade Anchor]

Before this gets too heated. Love anchor debates (hahaha).
Why would you want excitement when anchoring? I prefer set it and forget it.
Shouldn't a piece of safety equipment perform as expected every time?
Would you wear a life vest that could only keep you afloat for 30 minutes when you have a better life vest in a locker?
Would you use a life line that was made out of twine because the nylon was to heavy to use?
Would you skydive and deploy the back up parachute first?
Your best possible safety equipment in all aspects should be readily available to use quickly.

[Bulawayo]

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Spade Anchor

Before this gets too heated. Love anchor debates (hahaha).
Why would you want excitement when anchoring? I prefer set it and forget it.
Shouldn't a piece of safety equipment perform as expected every time?
Would you wear a life vest that could only keep you afloat for 30 minutes when you have a better life vest in a locker?
Would you use a life line that was made out of twine because the nylon was to heavy to use?
Would you skydive and deploy the back up parachute first?
Your best possible safety equipment in all aspects should be readily available to use quickly.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by Bluebeard

There is a quasi steady state loading due to wind and current, and a transient loading due to wave and swell surge. In the latter case the overall strength of the system is secondary and what is important is the ability of the system to absorb the energy of the wave as it passes through.
In both cases the anchor rode should not be above horizontal at the anchor.

There is real value in having an all chain anchor rode. When it is working it forms a caterary, with varying lengths of chain still on the seabed. As it is loaded the caterary is flattened and chain is lifted off the seabed close to the anchor. It is not generally understood that this sytem is very elastic and absorbs energy by lifting the chain through the water. So there are significant advantages in using all chain, and the heaviest chain possible at that.

Very well put, and it scraped off huge amounts of rust from my memory.

In line with this, to greatly assist with keeping the chain as near as possible to horizontal at the anchor, I used to put a cheap mushroom anchor of about 10lb, along the chain about 20ft from the anchor (it 'might' have been 15ft, or may have started at 15ft and gone to 20ft, of vice versa, it's been a while).

It seemed to help a lot, including with initially setting the anchor (usually a CQR type at the time).

As it didn't actually do any stressful 'work', it being pretty much just a dead weight, a small diameter snap fastener allowed it to be connected and disconnected easily. To spread the wear, I'd just move the fastener along the links a bit at each anchoring.

Just a thought, but would it perhaps be worth considering adjusting the weights distance from the anchor, to accommodate anticipated (or actual) wave height? So say a base distance of 15ft/20ft from the anchor, then add in a factor for wave height? Perhaps double? If 6ft waves, and working with a base distance of 20ft for the weight, add double the wave height, for a distance of 20 + 12 = 32ft, for a starting point? This might help contribute to comfort while anchored (and boat and anchor system comfort at anchor, as well as for those on board). I'll have a go at trying different distances when I get my boat, to see if there is some sort of 'sweet spot' distance formula that may be able to be worked out (or if it doesn't make any noticeable difference at all - which is still a positive result).

It used to be common, as the chain and anchor galvanising wore, to be able to send the chain and anchor off for regalvanising as needed, and this was very cheap and worthwhile compared to replacement (the quality of the work seemed to be fine too, with places that did a lot of it). It seemed standard practice at the time (around here anyway). Are facilities still available for this (probably dangerous to assume there still are, but if so, then any chain and anchors that come with my boat, if looking a bit tired in the galvanising stakes, I'd get them redipped for spares)?

Thanks all, some really good info and insights in this thread.

I'm now going all chain for the main anchor, with likely a Mantus storm spec on the end of it. Second anchor a Danforth with chain and nylon rode. Depending what (if anything) comes with the boat, and its condition, I might try a Rocna Vulcan with chain and rode for the stern.

We'll see how it goes.

Sort of related, after a few issues with retrieving the anchor now and again, I used to use a trip line and float, which worked well. But I have taken on board the potential issues a trip line and float can create, after reading some comments on here.

Any ideas for a cure for potential trip line and float issues, along the lines of perhaps putting a loose loop with a cable tie along the anchor chain at the anchoring depth plus a bit, and run the trip line inside that loop (with a float the boat side of the cable tie? Could run the trip line inside a length of cheap hose pipe to stop it tangling, and cut the cable tie free before it gets to the windlass? Could use a snap fastener for the anchor end of the trip line, and then it would be easy to remove and stow it rolled up separately, still in its length of hose pipe.

[Bulawayo]

I was talking a few weeks ago with a Brit who used to manage what he told was the last chain manufacturer in Britain - apparently all the machinery was sold off to China. He alleged that there were no chain manufacturers left in Britain and only a few left in Europe. Disheartening to say the least. Trying to get two anchors regalvanised presently ..... proving harder than expected.

Originally Posted by Ribbit

Very well put, and it scraped off huge amounts of rust from my memory.

In line with this, to greatly assist with keeping the chain as near as possible to horizontal at the anchor, I used to put a cheap mushroom anchor of about 10lb, along the chain about 20ft from the anchor (it 'might' have been 15ft, or may have started at 15ft and gone to 20ft, of vice versa, it's been a while).

It seemed to help a lot, including with initially setting the anchor (usually a CQR type at the time).

As it didn't actually do any stressful 'work', it being pretty much just a dead weight, a small diameter snap fastener allowed it to be connected and disconnected easily. To spread the wear, I'd just move the fastener along the links a bit at each anchoring.

Just a thought, but would it perhaps be worth considering adjusting the weights distance from the anchor, to accommodate anticipated (or actual) wave height? So say a base distance of 15ft/20ft from the anchor, then add in a factor for wave height? Perhaps double? If 6ft waves, and working with a base distance of 20ft for the weight, add double the wave height, for a distance of 20 + 12 = 32ft, for a starting point? This might help contribute to comfort while anchored (and boat and anchor system comfort at anchor, as well as for those on board). I'll have a go at trying different distances when I get my boat, to see if there is some sort of 'sweet spot' distance formula that may be able to be worked out (or if it doesn't make any noticeable difference at all - which is still a positive result).

It used to be common, as the chain and anchor galvanising wore, to be able to send the chain and anchor off for regalvanising as needed, and this was very cheap and worthwhile compared to replacement (the quality of the work seemed to be fine too, with places that did a lot of it). It seemed standard practice at the time (around here anyway). Are facilities still available for this (probably dangerous to assume there still are, but if so, then any chain and anchors that come with my boat, if looking a bit tired in the galvanising stakes, I'd get them redipped for spares)?

Thanks all, some really good info and insights in this thread.

I'm now going all chain for the main anchor, with likely a Mantus storm spec on the end of it. Second anchor a Danforth with chain and nylon rode. Depending what (if anything) comes with the boat, and its condition, I might try a Rocna Vulcan with chain and rode for the stern.

We'll see how it goes.

Sort of related, after a few issues with retrieving the anchor now and again, I used to use a trip line and float, which worked well. But I have taken on board the potential issues a trip line and float can create, after reading some comments on here.

Any ideas for a cure for potential trip line and float issues, along the lines of perhaps putting a loose loop with a cable tie along the anchor chain at the anchoring depth plus a bit, and run the trip line inside that loop (with a float the boat side of the cable tie? Could run the trip line inside a length of cheap hose pipe to stop it tangling, and cut the cable tie free before it gets to the windlass? Could use a snap fastener for the anchor end of the trip line, and then it would be easy to remove and stow it rolled up separately, still in its length of hose pipe.