Anchor chain marking and weaving line vs. paint

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

In 21, after our first trip into Canada with tides to over 35 feet, we got used to lots of chain. We came through the Cape Cod Canal, and went into our first anchorage. I caught my wife's attention and said "listen carefully -- 75 feet. Not 175, just 75." It was a bit of cerebral whiplash -- our first anchorage with under 100 feet out in over 2 months. LOL.

That is where I cruise; Nantucket to Long Island Sound. That's why I mark at 10 foot increments. The difference between 4:1 and 5:1 can be just 15 feet of chain.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Shrew

That is where I cruise; Nantucket to Long Island Sound. That's why I mark at 10 foot increments. The difference between 4:1 and 5:1 can be just 15 feet of chain.

But you don’t need markers to let out 15’ extra chain. Just press the down button on the windlass for 5 seconds. If that’s not accurate, find out how many seconds it is

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

But you don’t need markers to let out 15’ extra chain. Just press the down button on the windlass for 5 seconds. If that’s not accurate, find out how many seconds it is

Even just going on visual indication I find it's not usually too hard to approximate something close to half way between my 25 foot marks. Knowing to the nearest 10 feet might be useful sometimes, but I've certainly never found it necessary enough to be worth putting that many marks on the rode.

[Kettlewell]

Even just going on visual indication I find it's not usually too hard to approximate something close to half way between my 25 foot marks. Knowing to the nearest 10 feet might be useful sometimes, but I've certainly never found it necessary enough to be worth putting that many marks on the rode.

I find a mark every 50 feet plenty. Frankly, I often let out excess chain and/or line to set the anchor, then shorten up. If my anchor is well dug in I know from experience that it will take a lot to dislodge it at even 3:1 or 4:1, and those blows are rare. If I get a blow like that I let out more. When hauling the anchor it is rare to not come to a dead stop over the anchor with the chain bar taught until I winch it out of the bottom, often pulling the bow down in the process. I know that thing will stick well at any reasonable scope.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

When hauling the anchor it is rare to not come to a dead stop over the anchor with the chain bar taught until I winch it out of the bottom, often pulling the bow down in the process.

This brings up a related point. There is an oft-repeated idea that the windlass should NEVER be used to do more than lift the chain/anchor. That the engine should pull the boat forward.


We don't do that. When possible, we don't even have the engine running! The admiral stands on the "In" button, and the chain comes in. In winds less than 10 (normal in any protected harbor), the boat quickly pulls toward the anchor, and the chain becomes almost slack. After about 30% is hauled in, the duty cycle usually goes to 20% because she spends more time washing mud than retrieving -- so there isn't even a "heat" issue. The real work begins, as you point out, when trying to get the anchor free, where frequently the clutch slips and she has to let things settle a bit and try again. And then lifting the anchor and chain is often near or over 100lbs, likely more than it took to pull the boat forward.

[s/v Jedi]

Hmm… clutch shouldn’t slip when tightened.

We do it differently again: without using the engine, I haul in chain until it come taut, then stop and wait while the weight of the chain pulls us forward. I then tighten again and wait so never pulling the boat forward with the windlass but building up speed nonetheless. At some point I can keep hauling chain in as we move faster than the windlass can get it in.

We have a really big 176lb anchor and it’s stuck in there so no way this forward movement will do anything to dislodge it. I simply keep it taut, taking up any slack without pulling hard until the chain is straight up and down. Now the waves do the work and I just keep taking in any slack. If there’s no waves, I pull the bow down a bit and wait as the buoyancy does it’s work. It doesn’t take long at all before it comes loose and I bring it up so that it’s dragged along the water surface while moving under power to clean it off. It bothers me when I see people don’t clean it. When it’s not clean, it won’t set well and you may need it in an emergency.

This works up to about 20kts of wind. More than that and I need some help from the engine to bring the chain up and down.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Hmm… clutch shouldn’t slip when tightened.

We do it differently again: without using the engine, I haul in chain until it come taut, then stop and wait while the weight of the chain pulls us forward. I then tighten again and wait so never pulling the boat forward with the windlass but building up speed nonetheless. At some point I can keep hauling chain in as we move faster than the windlass can get it in.

We have a really big 176lb anchor and it’s stuck in there so no way this forward movement will do anything to dislodge it. I simply keep it taut, taking up any slack without pulling hard until the chain is straight up and down. Now the waves do the work and I just keep taking in any slack. If there’s no waves, I pull the bow down a bit and wait as the buoyancy does it’s work. It doesn’t take long at all before it comes loose and I bring it up so that it’s dragged along the water surface while moving under power to clean it off. It bothers me when I see people don’t clean it. When it’s not clean, it won’t set well and you may need it in an emergency.

This works up to about 20kts of wind. More than that and I need some help from the engine to bring the chain up and down.

That's about what I do as well if it's really calm. Anything less than nearly dead calm and it's easier and faster to give a few bumps in gear to move the boat and position it (this is done via hand signals back to the admiral at the helm).



As far as clutch slippage, when tightening mine, I always set it so the clutch will slip shortly before the windlass actually stalls. Yes, that limits maximum pulling power a bit, but it minimizes the risk of popping the breaker and having to go below to reset, plus it makes it harder to accidentally abuse the windlass. And for those of us that typically power down and don't adjust the clutch on every use, it makes sure the clutch faces slip occasionally (such as when docking the anchor in the roller) and that the clutch doesn't end up stuck engaged.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Hmm… clutch shouldn’t slip when tightened.

It can be adjusted to not slip (although if adjusted to not slip, is it really a clutch?). Like RSLIFKIN, we have it set to about 80-90% of max windlass load. Maybe even 70%. It's set at an amount that rarely slips in normal use, but slips before the windlass boggs down. It also (hopefully) slips if the chain castles and backs up in the chain pipe. And like RSLIFKIN, we power down as well as up, and so it's largely a set-and-forget setting.

[Mike OReilly]

If the winds are light to moderate in the anchorage, we usually use our manual windlass to bring the boat up to the anchor. It only takes a few pulls to get the boat moving. After that, inertia and the catenary keeps us moving.

Once we're on to of the anchor we use the windlass to haul it up. Occasionally the anchor is so well dug-in that we can bring the bow down using the windlass as we try and dislodge the anchor.

Slow and steady wins this fight; crank in till it won't move, flip the manual lock on the windlass, then let waves do the work. If waves are insufficient, I stand on the anchor chain which runs from roller to windlass. There is an air gap of about 10 cm. When it moves, haul in the gap, and then repeat. In this way I leverage the anchor up.

There have been a few times when it has taken over an hour to dislodge the anchor, but so far we've never failed to retrieve it.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

As far as clutch slippage, when tightening mine, I always set it so the clutch will slip shortly before the windlass actually stalls. Yes, that limits maximum pulling power a bit, but it minimizes the risk of popping the breaker and having to go below to reset, plus it makes it harder to accidentally abuse the windlass. And for those of us that typically power down and don't adjust the clutch on every use, it makes sure the clutch faces slip occasionally (such as when docking the anchor in the roller) and that the clutch doesn't end up stuck engaged.

Originally Posted by sailingharry

It can be adjusted to not slip (although if adjusted to not slip, is it really a clutch?). Like RSLIFKIN, we have it set to about 80-90% of max windlass load. Maybe even 70%. It's set at an amount that rarely slips in normal use, but slips before the windlass boggs down. It also (hopefully) slips if the chain castles and backs up in the chain pipe. And like RSLIFKIN, we power down as well as up, and so it's largely a set-and-forget setting.

Ah, y’all don’t use the windlass properly. I recommend to rtfm

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Ah, y’all don’t use the windlass properly. I recommend to rtfm

The manual for mine (Maxwell HRC10-8) describes both deployment methods as being perfectly acceptable Maxwell also mentions only tightening the clutch enough to get the necessary retrieval power, not to just crank it all the way tight.

From a practical perspective, there are times when dropping the anchor like a bomb with the clutch is the best bet. But for the majority of my anchoring, I don't need to place it quite that precisely. And my windlass deploys pretty quickly, so especially with someone at the helm to control the boat as needed, it's almost always fast enough. Deploying in very high winds would likely be easier with the clutch (and the clutch handle is stowed next to the windlass remote, snubbers, etc. for those situations).

[Simi 60]

^^^^^^What he said.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

The manual for mine (Maxwell HRC10-8) describes both deployment methods as being perfectly acceptable Maxwell also mentions only tightening the clutch enough to get the necessary retrieval power, not to just crank it all the way tight.

From a practical perspective, there are times when dropping the anchor like a bomb with the clutch is the best bet. But for the majority of my anchoring, I don't need to place it quite that precisely. And my windlass deploys pretty quickly, so especially with someone at the helm to control the boat as needed, it's almost always fast enough. Deploying in very high winds would likely be easier with the clutch (and the clutch handle is stowed next to the windlass remote, snubbers, etc. for those situations).

It’s always easier with the clutch in my opinion. The manual says that the clutch needs to be tightened so that it doesn’t slip during retrieval. The slipping mechanism is for use during dropping the anchor, to slow it during descent.
The clutch handle is used for powered up and down to make sure the clutch is tight. The manual doesn’t say to loosen it so that it slips during high load.

I see many, many boats with inoperable clutches. So many cruisers think the clutch is on/off only or have it completely seized. This is the result of not using it.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

It’s always easier with the clutch in my opinion. The manual says that the clutch needs to be tightened so that it doesn’t slip during retrieval. The slipping mechanism is for use during dropping the anchor, to slow it during descent.
The clutch handle is used for powered up and down to make sure the clutch is tight. The manual doesn’t say to loosen it so that it slips during high load.

I see many, many boats with inoperable clutches. So many cruisers think the clutch is on/off only or have it completely seized. This is the result of not using it.

The manual for mine states "only tighten the clutch sufficiently so that you can easily pull up the anchor". And has a note stating "over tightening the clutch can cause damage to the motor when docking the anchor". That's presumably due to the very sudden stop if the clutch is too tight to slip before the motor stalls.

I tighten enough that it doesn't slip at all during retrieval (and a bit tighter than required for this), only when the anchor docks in the roller, or when it pulls the chain tight and vertical.

Dropping with the clutch means I'm squatting or kneeling next to the windlass with a limited view of the rode depending on what the wind is doing, etc. (due to the bow and pulpit blocking the view at some angles). Compared to a power drop where I'm holding the remote (no foot switches) and can stand wherever on the bow I have the best view of what's going on.