Anchor choices

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by thinwater

I would like to hear of your experience. It seems to me you will only see the top 1/8" and only in that spot. You could feel if the surface is hard or soft, but only the top inch and only that spot.

True. It's just one more bit of info that feeds into the complex equation.

I have to be honest, I don't actually use it to check the bottom very often (hence the little smilie), although I certainly have. But I do use the lead line quite often for basic anchoring. It stays in its own pocket in the cockpit, ready to be used at a moment's notice.

It's a very handy anchoring tool.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

True. It's just one more bit of info that feeds into the complex equation.

I have to be honest, I don't actually use it to check the bottom very often (hence the little smilie), although I certainly have. But I do use the lead line quite often for basic anchoring. It stays in its own pocket in the cockpit, ready to be used at a moment's notice.

It's a very handy anchoring tool.

Yeah I haven't pulled mine out in a few years since I am not visiting unknown places yet, but it's nice to have the option. And you don't even get the top 1/8", more like top 1/32! Really it just tells you what the bottom is made of. What lies below the surface grains, the anchor will have to tell you. Now what if nothing comes up in the wax? Rocks. Don't anchor there.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Please note the above are my personal views. Despite having owned a full sized Fortress for well a decade and spending many hours experimenting with a small Guardian anchor, I do not fully understand the behaviour of this design of anchor when subject to a change in direction of pull.

I can't recall - can you assemble the Fortress/Guardian with the flukes backwards (points on the outside)? If so, it might have a better tendency to bite into the seabed when it tips up on the stock.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Yeah I haven't pulled mine out in a few years since I am not visiting unknown places yet, but it's nice to have the option. And you don't even get the top 1/8", more like top 1/32! Really it just tells you what the bottom is made of. What lies below the surface grains, the anchor will have to tell you. Now what if nothing comes up in the wax? Rocks. Don't anchor there.

Yup, it's just another piece of information.

Coming into a new anchorage I try and assess what the bottom will be. Look at the surrounding land, the vegetation, the contours of the anchorage, and of course any info available from the charts or guides (if any) and locals. If shallowness and visibility allow, looking down is great. And of course you can dive down in warmer climes -- not something we do up north though. A fishfinder can be great.

So the little sample from the leadline is just another piece of information to add to the puzzle.

[OneHullPaul]

Oversizing a Rocna risks making loading the anchor into the dinghy and kedging it out harder or impossible. Handling your anchor single handed in marginal conditions is a real benefit if that works with manufacturers recommendation. I nearly got an oversized Rocna 33 but it was too much to handle and the recommended 25 was a big improvement. Just my 0.2c worth.

[thinwater]

Checking the bottom: I often anchor so shallow I just use a paddle to feel how hard or soft. If you can't really feel the bottom, maybe it's too soft (some of the bottom here is just "thick water"). If it feels like concrete, you are over rock (very hard clay/shale). we have both.


Kedge. A big Rocna is not for kedging with a dinghy. That is what a mid-size Fortress is for. Skip the chain and use a Dyneema leader. Very easy. I used this combo many times for anchor testing (I need to anchor the boat rigidly so that I could drag other anchors with winches). A Fortress is not perfect, but it is the ultimate kedge in most situations. You don't need chain for kedging because the boat will not be swinging, you will lay the anchor out at very long scope, and a set Fortress is about the only anchor that actually holds nearly full power at short scope (which is why they can be a bugger to recover).

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Checking the bottom: I often anchor so shallow I just use a paddle to feel how hard or soft. If you can't really feel the bottom, maybe it's too soft (some of the bottom here is just "thick water"). If it feels like concrete, you are over rock (very hard clay/shale). we have both.

Perfect ... for shallow draft boats.

I like to anchor close to shore, in pretty shallow areas. But I still have 6' sticking down below me. If I can feel the bottom with my dinghy oar, I'm too well anchored .

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by OneHullPaul

Oversizing a Rocna risks making loading the anchor into the dinghy and kedging it out harder or impossible. Handling your anchor single handed in marginal conditions is a real benefit if that works with manufacturers recommendation. I nearly got an oversized Rocna 33 but it was too much to handle and the recommended 25 was a big improvement. Just my 0.2c worth.

I have a Fx-37 Fortress on the stern for that purpose. I used to have a steel Danforth Of similar size but even that was very difficult, unsafe really, for dingy work.

We lost our main anchor in a storm this year, the shackle pin backed out and let go when we got hit by a big wave that also swamped the dingy. Fortunately we were on top of things started the motor and moved to a alternate location and dropped our secondary bower, a 66lb spade. I retrieved the main the next day and found the shackle pin laying on the bottom within a foot of the shank.

The pin was wired and recently. Don’t know what happened. I now have a soft shackle doubling the shackle connection anchor to chain. Normally it will carry no tension, and hopefully will hold at least one anchoring cycle if the shackle lets go again.

[kmacdonald]

Update. Last weekend I dragged 3 times in one night. No wind. Pulled up Fortress each time. Cleared debris and it reset fine until a wind shift. I guess I will put the Rocna back on the bow. 15 kg.

Well I didnt bring the Rocna this weekend. Anchored in Dunn Cove with little to no wind. I wonder how many times it will drag tonight. If there was even light wind it'd hold but I have no confidence in the Fortress when there is no wind. Hopefully I'll remember the Rocna next weekend. I am a little concerned since there are 15 other boats in the cove so far. I'm sure more will show up. I did hear one couple gasps when I pulled the Fortress out of the anchor locker. If that isn't a bad omen I dont know what is.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Update. Last weekend I dragged 3 times in one night. No wind. Pulled up Fortress each time. Cleared debris and it reset fine until a wind shift. I guess I will put the Rocna back on the bow. 15 kg.

Well I didnt bring the Rocna this weekend. Anchored in Dunn Cove with little to no wind. I wonder how many times it will drag tonight. If there was even light wind it'd hold but I have no confidence in the Fortress when there is no wind. Hopefully I'll remember the Rocna next weekend. I am a little concerned since there are 15 other boats in the cove so far. I'm sure more will show up. I did hear one couple gasps when I pulled the Fortress out of the anchor locker. If that isn't a bad omen I dont know what is.

A Fortress can hold in those conditions (Dunn Cove has nice sticky mud for the most part) if you set it HARD and bury it deep. But if you have an outboard or something else anemic in reverse, and cannot bury the anchor (perhaps because it is too big), not so much.


If all you have is a pivoting fluke anchor, this is when setting a second anchor in a V with ~ 120 degree angle works. It is the only way to be sure. Then you are VERY sure!


(This is only one of many possibilities. It would take a chapter to be clear. For two Fortress-type anchors the angle would be wider, the two V-legs would be equal and longer, and the rode from connection-to-boat would be quite short--and not fore-aft anchoring)

Pivoting fluke anchors can be very good, but they have their tricks and their rules.

[kmacdonald]

It's hard to set hard because of prop walk.

[kmacdonald]

Most boats I've seen here in a long time. 15 or 20 years ago there would be 30 plus sailboats here every weekend. 5 is a crowd now.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Update. Last weekend I dragged 3 times in one night. No wind. Pulled up Fortress each time. Cleared debris and it reset fine until a wind shift. I guess I will put the Rocna back on the bow. 15 kg.

Well I didnt bring the Rocna this weekend. Anchored in Dunn Cove with little to no wind. I wonder how many times it will drag tonight. If there was even light wind it'd hold but I have no confidence in the Fortress when there is no wind. Hopefully I'll remember the Rocna next weekend. I am a little concerned since there are 15 other boats in the cove so far. I'm sure more will show up. I did hear one couple gasps when I pulled the Fortress out of the anchor locker. If that isn't a bad omen I dont know what is.

In my view, you are better not using the Fortress as a primary anchor when anchoring overnight, at least if there is any risk of change in the direction of pull.

The Fortress design has outstanding holding in a straight line pull if dropped in the right substrate, but does not have the versatility of other designs. If you are unfortunate enough to drag, the light weight and flat nature of the anchor tends to cause a rapid drag that increases the chance of damage.

The lower reliability when responding to a change in the direction of pull is helped by setting multiple anchors, but this faffing around should not be necessary for routine anchoring, and even with two anchors the need to rotate a significant amount is not eliminated.

In my view, keep the Fortress as a kedge/secondary, where it is excellent.

[kmacdonald]

Thanks Noelex. I'm going to put the Rocna back on.
The wind picked up a little and was able to set the Fortress. Winds picked up to 20kts last night and it didnt move an inch. Unfortunately one large power boat dragged at 2 am and woke me up while they motored past in the dark. Another large power boat was grounded as well as a large sailboat. The radio cracked to life this morning with calls for Tow Boat. The Fortress held great as it always does when there isn't a wind shift and there is some wind.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Update. Last weekend I dragged 3 times in one night. No wind. Pulled up Fortress each time. Cleared debris and it reset fine until a wind shift.

We've not ever had a Fortress drag, even with wind or tidal shift.

Our is semi-large, though, and I have serious horsepower for setting.

Where is Dunn Cove? Up the Miles, one of the Wye Rivers, or the Choptank somewhere?

-Chris