anchor-outs have significantly harmed the ecosystem

[Exile]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Guilt as charged. yeppers very literal. Apologies to the non-engineering Folk. Here I thought I was getting better....sigh

If you were an EE (elec. engineer), I hear (mostly from my mech. & civil engineer friends) that there's really no remedy.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Exile

If you were an EE (elec. engineer), I hear (mostly from my mech. & civil engineer friends) that there's really no remedy.

Luckily or possibly unluckily, I'm mechanical, hvac, plumbing, fire, steam, pretty much anything in a pipe. Just worked with enough EE's to speaky the lingo. Plus Digital Electronics is a hobby, as is programming and Telescope making and that sailing thingy.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Well there's an enlightened Outlook. Are you sure you're even on the right forum. This is about cruising boats, that generally anchor out, when they're cruising. Good Lord I avoid Mooring balls, like the plague. I probably just need to go back to Rainbow Unicorn Land.

Let's be clear here, at Richardson Bay, one is primarily not dealing with "cruisers", rather one is dealing with permanently anchored vessels, i.e., houseboaters, living aboard in lieu of more expensive accommodations on shore, or stored boats. Lack of affordability of housing has caused persons to seek alternatives on water. Yes there are some salty types with mariner skills and well maintained, properly equipped boats and the some transient cruisers.

A good number of the boats are rather derelict and routinely some become abandoned or unoccupied which requires disposal or salvage at public expense and many are not insured for damages they may cause.

Schoonmaker Point Marina closed it dinghy dock to unpaid use a month ago because of vandalism in their previously unlocked public use bathroom and water fill facilities, and due to liability exposure, and over crowding of the dock by non-temporary docking [i.e., anchor outs full day use or longer tie ups] instead of the proscribed 15 minute free use. Now there are just two very crowded public dinghy docks, so for some their dinghy commute has become considerably longer, 20 to 30 minute row instead of 10 minutes; most of the anchor outs utilize rowed dinghies which of course can be challenging and hazardous in windy or stormy conditions.

Many of the boats are static, they do not utilize pump out stations for their waste water and the observed dumping trash is a real issue. Some of the abandoned, unoccupied boats have become floating garbage bins, loaded to the max.

The RBRA prohibits boaters from idling in Richardson Bay for longer than 72 hours without marina slips. So those that stay for longer than 72 hours are breaking the existing maritime law, unenforced maritime law.

Increasing Number of Vessels
• 1986 ‐ 70 to 90 Vessels in Richardson Bay
• 2008 – Approx. 98 Vessels in Richardson Bay
• 2015 – Approx. 211‐240 Vessels in Richardson Bay with 65 in Sausalito waters.
Reasons for Increase
• Since 2010, several anchorages in
Oakland/Alameda, San Leandro, Redwood City,
and the Delta closed.
Caused relocation to Richardson Bay.

• Several other boat yards & vessel storage
locations have also closed. Individuals
obtained vessels from these locations and
then placed them in Richardson Bay in order
to get free storage or to store them as they
attempted to sell them.

Areas such as the Turney basin and the waters of Dunphy Park were once virtually free of any vessels now have numerous vessels anchored in them and have made navigating into and out of the marinas difficult.

Of ecological concern is the impact of much more extensive anchoring and whether such can be mitigated technologically or by regulation as to capping use.

Why would you dislike moorings?

Properly equipped fixed anchors [moorings] are more secure and less damaging to the environment than temporary anchors [vessel dropped anchors].

Properly laid out mooring fields can accommodate many more moored vessels than temporary anchorages because the scope is lessened and the spaces for swing clearance is assured based on the design length of the vessel for which the specific mooring was configured, and thus not prone to vessels placing their anchors inappropriately too close or too far from adjoining vessels or utilizing inappropriate scope length.

Boats on proper moorings do not drag and drift into other boats, or onto the rocks or piers, or into navigation channels. Moorings do not get fouled by other rodes or entangled with submerged objects.

[Exile]

Why did the nearby anchorages close?

[sailorchic34]

yes some of the boats of derelict, and some are filled with trash. But that's less than 20% of them by my admittedly my low standards. A goodly number of them are quite seaworthy.

Be that as it may, I don't see kicking people off the boats and making them homeless on shore with nowhere to go is really a humane way of dealing with things. That's part of the issue. Yes you could put them in housing ashore, except there isn't any available and there is a long waiting list. I read recently that there's more than 20,000 people homeless on the streets of the Bay Area. So there is a huge problem, and the anchor outs in Richardson Bay are the least of it.

As to why I don't like Mooring fields, let me count the ways. 1.they put a lot of boats in a small area which can create a lot of noise. 2. I don't trust that a mooring field is properly maintained, after it's been installed. I would have much rather trust my ground tackle which I am 100% sure about. 3. I'm on a boat to get away from people. Being in a mooring field is pretty much like being in an apartment complex. 4. I single hand so that makes picking up a mooring a bit tricky. Especially as I get older.

For for All the Above reasons I will not use a mooring field, ever. A mooring field is used at your own risk. So if it's not maintained and a Shackle breaks during a winter storm, the owner of mooring field is held harmless. As I have most excellent ground tackle I'd rather anchor and sleep better at night.

Of course myself, I really don't anchor in Richardson Bay much, because the noise from the shore is pretty excessive. Lots of traffic noise, cars honking, alarms going off. I'd much rather anchor out in a quiet place where I'm all alone, and I do. if I see another boat anchored in sight, I tend to go somewhere else.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Exile

Why did the nearby anchorages close?

new developments being built. Can't have Rich folk in condos looking down on liveaboards, from their Waterside condos. it's actually a pretty serious problem right now. and yes that means there are fewer Marina and fewer slips. So where do the fine people with boats go.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

new developments being built. Can't have Rich folk in condos looking down on liveaboards, from there Waterside condos. it's actually a pretty serious problem right now. and yes that means there are fewer Marina and fewer slips. So where do the fine people with boats go.

That's what I thought. Call me a cynic, but I have to wonder if they commissioned environmental studies to justify the closures there too. Was it the eelgrass again, or just too many derelict boats? (I get confused)

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Exile

Why did the nearby anchorages close?

Parts of San Leandro and Redwood City have silted in.

The San Leandro marina is 30 acre, 462 slips and is vacating and will become a city park. It once was a grand marina but needs a lot of dredging to get out to the deep water and of course most marinas tend to be a rather marginal operation from an economic basis.

Oakland in their estuary and Redwood City in their narrow creek drainage based harbor have passed regulations to restrict anchoring.

Not sure what anchorage they are mentioning as to the Delta, which is massively large area.

"According to state laws, only two categories of people are allowed to live out on the water, and even then only under very specific circumstances. If granted permission by the Bay Conservation and Development Commission—the agency that regulates water sanitation in the Bay Area—harbors are allowed to host a few “live-aboards” to enhance the security of the marina, but they cannot make up more than ten percent of the marina’s population. The only others permitted to live at marinas are true cruisers who need a place to dock their boats temporarily. Both these groups of people must live docked at the marina, not anchored out in the middle of the water."

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Montanan

According to state laws, only two categories of people are allowed to live out on the water, and even then only under very specific circumstances. If granted permission by the Bay Conservation and Development Commission—the agency that regulates water sanitation in the Bay Area—harbors are allowed to host a few “live-aboards” to enhance the security of the marina, but they cannot make up more than ten percent of the marina’s population. The only others permitted to live at marinas are true cruisers who need a place to dock their boats temporarily. Both these groups of people must live docked at the marina, not anchored out in the middle of the water."

Luckily the BCDC, only regulates areas up to Suisun Bay. The California delta is outside that area. Oddly enough anchoring is allowed in the California delta, they even regulations for it. In Solano, Contra Costa, and San Joaquin counties liveaboards make anchor in 1 location up to 30 days. Sacramento County allows two weeks, then you need a permit.

You can also anchor in Richmond bay for 3 days, and most of the places for three or four in the central Bay so anchoring is permitted you would just have to move around every few days. In a few people do.

Shocking I know.

[JPA Cate]

Everybody's struggling for money.

California has a monumental water crisis going on, basically due to too many people living there and too much agricultural demand [also population affected].

Funding at governmental levels, federal, State, County, City, and things like BCDC (Bay Conservation and Development Commission) goes to whoever can fight most effectively for it. Humanitarian issues do not seem to have dollar values, nor even public health issues, like the problems from the Arsenic in the tap water in East Orosi.*

Northern California has given up much of its limited rain/snow fall water, that goes by canal to Southern California, where I once knew people who feel free to shower more than twice a day, and change clothes 3 x per day are using potable water for said showers, washings, and maintaining verdant expanses at their homes. They are not "the poor", but neither are they super rich. They do not welcome tax increases, any more than the truly wealthy.

We, the Californians, have been pumping more water out of the aquifers than has been going in for hundreds of years.

The conservation/preservation issues facing just this one State are extremely complex, and I doubt there is a politically correct solution. Somebody's ox is gonna get gored, and no one wants it to be hers or his. It is a Tradegy of the Commons type of situation over and over.

I think the water quality problem is perhaps somewhat more pressing than proportion of the eel grass in Richardson Bay's anchoring zone that is damaged by anchored vessels. I agree with SailorChic34's evaluation of that problem, and also with the humanitarian consideration (as well as city/county costs) of not creating more homeless people.

Problems are mostly pretty complex, comprising many factors, and one sided answers, when one is dealing with a multi-faceted polygon--well, it's not really an answer.

*https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/21/u...ted-water.html

Ann

[tomfl]

Just a few random thoughts.

Mooring balls in BKH are maintained on a regular basis which includes inspection and power washing/cleaning to get rid of marine growth on the ball and chain to the bottom. The City Marina provides instructions on how to attach to them. There is a plastic eye at the end of a short rope attached to the ball and only rope is suppose to touch it, though chafe protection is also allowed. This does not prevent damage and on a couple of occasions I have been driving my inflatable to the dinghy dock and picked up a length of line with the plastic eye and given it to Sean. When I suggested it was cut by a dinghy outboard he said it was probably cut by a larger boat; it was obvious this was not the first time he had see this.

As posted earlier eel grass is protected in Florida and you can not anchor in an area with eel grass. Fines for damaging eel grass are based on how big an area is damaged. If you run aground and damage a large area fines have been up to six figures. Same protection for coral reef; along with big fines for damage.

The bigger problem is not just that there are a lot more boats but what seems to be a new type of boater. Several areas in the Keys that use to have public docks at parks with access to bathrooms and parking have closed due to what local governments viewed as abuse. Outboard motors were being rebuilt on picnic tables, adults were exposing themselves to small children when bathrooms were full, drug use was rampant. This had nothing to do with rich home owners not wanting their view spoiled (not that this does not happen); rather regular folks who live on dirt not wanting to bear the cost of boaters who were basically avoiding homelessness by living on a boat.

This is a problem that I see as only getting worse. It is all to easy for pols to get votes by saying the government should not have to subsidize boaters with docks, restrooms, showers, and easy access to stores. To make matters worse many marinas are closing and being replaced by high rise condos (forget about macmansions these are the real problem). In South Florida the cost of a slip in a marina is sky high if, and that is a big if, you can find one that is not already paid for. I suspect this is the case in CA as well from what I read in this thread.

It is all to easy to say poor folks are being driven away but market forces are what set the marina prices. Already there are issues in BKH with state and federal funds to subsidize the pump out boats (bought with a federal grant) that offer basically free pump outs in the harbor. The idea is that it is cheaper to do this than to clean up the mess from holding tanks if there were no pump outs. But lots of folks who live on dirt wonder why they have to pay for that.

When confronted with the argument that dirt dwellers pollute more than those who live on boats they dismiss that argument and say they also have to pay for pollution on dirt.

Several posts in this thread have noted that following the money provides lots of answers. Bottom line is a lot of boat owners are asking others to subsidize there life style. Not really a winning argument to those subsidizing them.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Everybody's struggling for money.

California has a monumental water crisis going on, basically due to too many people living there and too much agricultural demand [also population affected].

SNIP
Ann

A big part of CA's problem is how heavily it depended on water from Lake Mead. Once Las Vegas started growing and needing more water (along with other areas depending on Lake Mead water and much closer than CA the spaghetti hit the fan.

[Montanan]

Totally agree that if a mooring field is installed it should be properly maintained.

It requires periodic inspection and changes in the rode and shackles, no different than inspecting and replacing ones ground tackle and not much effort or expense. A team of divers can inspect a shallow field in short order.

Moorings can readily be "over built" in comparison to ground tackle, everything made extra robust from the start and thence provide for lengthy service life.

The shortened rodes that don't come into contact with the sea bottom are stated to survive much longer due to lack of wear.

The Bay Area is very expensive. I know of a college friend of my daughter who purchased a large transit van and custom built a mini-house inside and then proceeded to live on the Streets of San Francisco while attending a year of graduate studies at UCSF, frequently moving about to park to sleep, different location most every night, often to scenic places, did not want to be come a burden to a specific community. Would tend to park well after dinner and then rise and drive to leave for campus in the early AM. He spent most of his day time parked on campus, studying in one of the buildings, or taking classes and had the gym resources on campus for exercising and showering. People in whatever neighborhood he parked at overnight didn't usually even know he was inside. Did not cook in the van, but had a mini-fridge and some staples. Ate mostly at the school cafeterias to keep cost down. S.F. having a mild climate and he an exceedingly hard boy from Montana it wasn't roughing it. But was glad to be done with school after nine months and van living. Made his graduate education much more affordable.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Luckily the BCDC, only regulates areas up to Suisun Bay. The California delta is outside that area. Oddly enough anchoring is allowed in the California delta, they even regulations for it. In Solano, Contra Costa, and San Joaquin counties liveaboards make anchor in 1 location up to 30 days. Sacramento County allows two weeks, then you need a permit.

You can also anchor in Richmond bay for 3 days, and most of the places for three or four in the central Bay so anchoring is permitted you would just have to move around every few days. In a few people do.

Shocking I know.

I know of live aboard boaters in the Bay Area that have slips in two marinas, they can stay for up to 3 days every 7 days in a marina and not be classified as a liveaboard, so they move the boat to their other marina for a 2 or 3 days and then they like to go sail on weekends and holidays and vacation days to anchor out or say to go to Half Moon Bay and they also tend to take extended cruises from time to time, example, to Hawaii, Baja, or the pacific northwest. Or they may just take a transient slip for a day or two elsewhere. They have exchange privileges with some of the other marinas owned by the same company.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by ThereAndBack

It was said tongue in cheek. But we've gotten to the point that people will take such a thing seriously.

I think we have here a prime example of Poe's Law