anchor-outs have significantly harmed the ecosystem

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by ThereAndBack

It was said tongue in cheek. But we've gotten to the point that people will take such a thing seriously.

AOC's "12 years left" thing got shot down and now she's saying it was tongue in cheek as well.
I seriously hope you were just joking.

[Montanan]

Where are you going to put your boat.

San Leandro Marina Will Close Soon, Further Squeezing Sailing (462 slips gone)

By jarndt on November 30, 2018 at 3:34 PM

As the San Francisco Bay shoreline continues to be developed with high-rent waterfront properties, access to sailing is feeling the pressure. The once-popular San Leandro Marina has fallen on hard times because of silting. As dredging has become increasingly expensive, the marina will not have any maintenance done and is scheduled to close in the next year or two, while new, shoreside developers add more condos and hotels as part of the San Leandro Shoreline Development. We spoke to harbormaster Delmarie Snodgrass, who let us know the marina is down to just a few sailboats, which, if they don’t leave soon, will be permanently stuck inside the marina as the channel silts in.

We remember when San Leandro was a thriving marina with 462 slips doing a healthy business with then- harbormaster Jim Haussener. The San Leandro Marine Center featured a large Travellift, ship’s store, and marine woodworking shop as part of its status as a full-service South Bay boatyard. The soon-to-be-condo-covered golf course was also a destination for golfer/boaters who would pull in for a round.

[JPA Cate]

Jim used to keep his Catalina 22 at San Leandro Marina, a looooong time ago....

I had to look up "Poe's Law." So, for those of you who might have to do that, here it is:

"Poe's Law" is an Internet axiom which states that it is difficult to distinguish extremism from satire of extremism on the Internet unless the author clearly indicates the intention by use of an emoji. Thereby, promoting the use of emoji's for those who make them or for clarity. To me, the emoji is necessary, because of the anonymity of posting, and the lack of eye contact. Without that, you cannot see the twinkle in the eyes that goes with a zinger, and without knowing someone very well personally, one can make the wrong assumptions...which we all know about.

Ann

[Arthurwg]

I guess all this is part of the reason so many monohull sailboats can be bought cheaply-- because it's become increasingly difficult or next to impossible to use them. Permanent, non-liveaboard slips have become amazingly expensive, and liveabord slips are virtually nonexistent. One municipal marina in Florida that allows liveabroads has 200 on its wait list, and the first place holder has an expected two-year wait.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Montanan

We remember when San Leandro was a thriving marina with 462 slips doing a healthy business with then- harbormaster Jim Haussener. The San Leandro Marine Center featured a large Travellift, ship’s store, and marine woodworking shop as part of its status as a full-service South Bay boatyard. The soon-to-be-condo-covered golf course was also a destination for golfer/boaters who would pull in for a round.

Yep, I remember when Palo Alto had a nice little marina too! I think the Sea Scout building is still there but I think the whole place silted in 30 years ago.

[markpierce]

Don't believe many boats there are transient anchor-outs. When I visited there, it has been at marina transient docks. ... Most past complaints are about derelict (and sunken) boats and the mishandling of human waste. ... Richardson Bay is the only special anchorage in central California where anchored boats needn't display day or night anchorage display/light. ...

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Where are you going to put your boat.

San Leandro Marina Will Close Soon, Further Squeezing Sailing (462 slips gone)

By jarndt on November 30, 2018 at 3:34 PM

As the San Francisco Bay shoreline continues to be developed with high-rent waterfront properties, access to sailing is feeling the pressure. The once-popular San Leandro Marina has fallen on hard times because of silting. As dredging has become increasingly expensive, the marina will not have any maintenance done and is scheduled to close in the next year or two, while new, shoreside developers add more condos and hotels as part of the San Leandro Shoreline Development. We spoke to harbormaster Delmarie Snodgrass, who let us know the marina is down to just a few sailboats, which, if they don’t leave soon, will be permanently stuck inside the marina as the channel silts in.

We remember when San Leandro was a thriving marina with 462 slips doing a healthy business with then- harbormaster Jim Haussener. The San Leandro Marine Center featured a large Travellift, ship’s store, and marine woodworking shop as part of its status as a full-service South Bay boatyard. The soon-to-be-condo-covered golf course was also a destination for golfer/boaters who would pull in for a round.

City of Vallejo's marina has many berths available. Located between the central bay and delta.

[ThereAndBack]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

AOC's "12 years left" thing got shot down and now she's saying it was tongue in cheek as well.
I seriously hope you were just joking.

In fact, it was a joke. I anchor out more than most I imagine. I love it and I think cruising full time is a lifestyle that puts me on the bottom of the list when it comes to "environmental offenders". I mean, I believe a full time cruiser that owns no house, no car, doesn't "commute" daily, and doesn't consume like crazy or with wild abandon is better for the ecosystem than a land lubber who does (which is the usual in my experience). So I long ago got over people telling me that boating was harming the environment.

Super tankers, war, and cruise ships sinking is harming the environment. Oil wells failing is harming it. Asian fishing fleets overharvesting is harming it, etc. The 500 boats in San Francisco bay aren't hurting anything worth getting worked up about. Sure I agree the derelicts should be removed but letting a document saying eel grass is being harmed determine policy is hilarious.

Anyway, that is my "real" piece. As a side note, my "tongue in cheek" comment might sound even more real in a few years. It is coming.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Yep, I remember when Palo Alto had a nice little marina too! I think the Sea Scout building is still there but I think the whole place silted in 30 years ago.

I'm not sure I recall the Palo Alto marina, we may have tootled in on the Piedmont Sea Scout's SS Revenge after a Sea Scout regatta in Redwood City back about 45 - 50 years ago. Would that be at the end of Bay Road in East Palo Alto or out past the airport on Embarcadero Road, in Palo Alto on San Francisquito Creek. Presently, there is a small dock leading to the creek channel of the narrow slough for public access, but I can't imagine anything much beyond a john boat at low tide.

Dredging is extremely expensive and environmentally challenging and the Bay has lots of shallow regions, especially below. The new Westpoint marina at Redwood City is nice, but the channel in is kind of thin for deep draft at low tide and the channel is also narrow out at the bay for quite the distance. I believe it is only useful for power cruisers, and there are some big ones out there.

[Singularity]

Originally Posted by Montanan

...Dredging is extremely expensive and environmentally challenging...

The positions you've offered tend to contradict basic concepts of evolution while otherwise are either anti-social or inhumane, while being simply expensive to society for the near exclusive benefit rich people (as well as a bunch of seaweed/fauna that can be replaced quickly).

Again I'd ask what the environment/ecosystem looked like 100 years ago...500 years ago...1,000 years ago. Was the composition the same as today? At what point in time and ecological state of the bay are you proposing that everyone get on board to support the maintenance of? The same as it was during the glory years of your youth?

These environmental threads are little more than a venue for the death anxiety/existential angst of a select few to be expressed.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Singularity

The positions you've offered tend to contradict basic concepts of evolution while otherwise are either anti-social or inhumane, while being simply expensive to society for the near exclusive benefit rich people (as well as a bunch of seaweed/fauna that can be replaced quickly).

Again I'd ask what the environment/ecosystem looked like 100 years ago...500 years ago...1,000 years ago. Was the composition the same as today? At what point in time and ecological state of the bay are you proposing that everyone get on board to support the maintenance of? The same as it was during the glory years of your youth?

These environmental threads are little more than a venue for the death anxiety/existential angst of a select few to be expressed.

Not sure what death or existential anxiety you may be experiencing or why, but there certainly is considerable financial anxiety to marina operators as to shouldering the burden of the costs of dredging. Which in the case of many marinas in the shallow portions of the S.F. Bay requires an extensive channeling far from the marina to deeper waters which channel may not be kept maintained by a government agency [Federal, State or municipal]. Silting is a major cause of decline and closure of marinas and of anchorages.

As to the S.F. Bay, about 80 percent of the historical wetlands have been destroyed, [by historical I mean going back to before the Gold Rush era, so predating 1849].

The California Gold Rush was a massive placer mining process during which hydromining was accomplished. The gold miners used essentially fire hoses and water cannons to literally wash down mountainsides to extract the gold from the sediment," The mining sent masses of dirt from the Sierra foothills into the watershed. Large amounts settled out in the rivers in the central valley and resulted in much flooding as the river channels filled and expanded. But the fines continued into the estuary before settling.
"About 250 million cubic meters of sediment deposited in the bay," That's enough mud, rock and sand to fill 36 million dump trucks, more upstream in the riversheds. These fines lead to a long duration of murky water. The Bay's water has become considerably clear in the last decade, by as much as 30%, because the fines continue to settle and are being washed out to sea with each passing exflow of tide. That clearing of the water could help some fish and other species and plants [e.g., eelgrass], but it poses a new risk for the bay's shoreline.

But there is the prospect of being able to use dredged materials to raise the remaining wetlands which wetlands are prone to becoming inundated by rising sea levels. Wetlands that stay underwater have a drastically changed biology.

Wet land mud was once sediment out in the bay and is key to the wetland's survival. With every high tide, the marshes are built up by the sediment they trap from the water.

"Less sediment in the bay could spell trouble if scientists' predictions about rising sea levels come to pass. These delicate tidal marshes could be inundated over the next century.

"The big question is: How much will it go up in the future?" Callaway says. "If it goes up to 8 to 10 millimeters a year, then I think many wetlands are unlikely to survive."

Wetlands are home to all sorts of plants and animals -- from egrets to harbor seals and fish -- but they also do another job: they protect shoreline development from storm surges.

"What wetlands do is they can absorb those peak storm surges, those waves that are rolling in," says Steve Goldbeck of the Bay Conservation and Development Commission. "When they hit the wetlands, it knocks down the waves' peaks."

Goldbeck says critical infrastructure like the Oakland and San Francisco airports are in the path of rising waters. That puts wetlands on the front line of defense.

With 80 percent of the bay's historic wetlands already destroyed, Goldbeck says restoration projects will be a vital tool to combat the rise in sea levels -- but that will require a lot of sediment.

Fortunately, millions of cubic yards of sediment are dredged in the bay to keep shipping channels clear. Goldbeck's agency is looking at how to recycle that material, now that sediment is becoming a valuable resource."



Dredging cost vary by location and as to distance and method of disposal, but a general ballpark number will be in the $20 to $50 per cubic meter. Large dredging projects in open channels are less expensive than smaller projects or projects that have to contend with nearby installed infrastructure, especially expensive mucking out around docks.

[ThereAndBack]

Originally Posted by Singularity

These environmental threads are little more than a venue for the death anxiety/existential angst of a select few to be expressed.

Yes but the hand-wringing is exquisite.

Also, as a side note, sometimes they serve to get people involved politically to stop the madness, but as cruising sailors are too small a community, it is generally a moot point.

[sailorchic34]

Luckily 2500 Acres of wet lands, have been restored in the last few years. And more wetlands Restorations are planned.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Montanan

I'm not sure I recall the Palo Alto marina, we may have tootled in on the Piedmont Sea Scout's SS Revenge after a Sea Scout regatta in Redwood City back about 45 - 50 years ago. Would that be at the end of Bay Road in East Palo Alto or out past the airport on Embarcadero Road, in Palo Alto on San Francisquito Creek. Presently, there is a small dock leading to the creek channel of the narrow slough for public access, but I can't imagine anything much beyond a john boat at low tide.

Dredging is extremely expensive and environmentally challenging and the Bay has lots of shallow regions, especially below. The new Westpoint marina at Redwood City is nice, but the channel in is kind of thin for deep draft at low tide and the channel is also narrow out at the bay for quite the distance. I believe it is only useful for power cruisers, and there are some big ones out there.

Yep, Embarcadero, past the airport, across from duck pond. There may still be a launch ramp out at the very end, but that area has recovered well.

[a64pilot]

10 milimeters is almost a half inch.
That is a pretty ridiculous forecast for sea level rise per year don’t you think?