Anchor Swivel Really Needed?

[Ultra Marine West]

The side loads of the ULTRA Flip Swivels match with their pulling loads, which is something extreme, but we intentionally don't use it in our marketing. Because the only way the sideload takes place if the anchor gets stuck under rocks. However, neither anchors nor swivels designed to work under big stones. That is why Lloyds don't test the side loads of the anchor shanks and swivels. So there is simply no side load terminology for anchors and swivels. That is why we don’t use it.

If the sea bottom is rocky, you shouldn't anchor there. If you have to or if you are unsure of the sea bottom type, you shouldn't do it without taking precautions such as you can tie a floating line to the bar of the ULTRA Anchor so that you can pull it from the other direction to recover. We designed the ULTRA Anchor Ring to help you recover your anchors when they get stuck under rocks https://www.ultramarinewest.com/prod...ra-anchor-ring

Forcing an anchor to recover while it is under a big rock will be the biggest mistake you would make. Even if you don't break your swivel, you will break your anchor shank or bow roller. If you force it, you will eventually break something. So instead of thinking that your swivel designed in a way that it doesn't take a side load so I can push as much as I can, please use another appropriate recovery method.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Ultra Marine West

The side loads of the ULTRA Flip Swivels match with their pulling loads, which is something extreme, but we intentionally don't use it in our marketing. Because the only way the sideload takes place if the anchor gets stuck under rocks. However, neither anchors nor swivels designed to work under big stones. That is why Lloyds don't test the side loads of the anchor shanks and swivels. So there is simply no side load terminology for anchors and swivels. That is why we don’t use it.

That seems reasonable. For the record, there is no way the strength of that or any other swivel could be the same in a side pull where leverage is being exerted, as in a straight pull, where there is no leverage. It's against the laws of physics. But if what you are saying is that the swivel is as strong as the rated strength in a side pull, then I could believe that.


And in any case, the strength of a swivel in a side pull isn't really even important -- there is no way you could break one of those or any other more or less reasonable swivel, by pulling against the shank of an anchor in a sideways pull. The anchor shank, subject to all that leverage, will of course be what gives. I'm sure the Ultra swivel is plenty strong enough. I don't really like that it adds leverage to the shank in a side pull, but that might also not be really all that important in the big picture since the lever arm is the whole length of the shank anyway, so the Ultra swivel just makes a fractional increase of that. My views on this have changed somewhat after thinking about it and, I think, understanding it better.

Originally Posted by Ultra Marine West

If the sea bottom is rocky, you shouldn't anchor there.. . .

You've obviously never cruised the Northern Baltic Some of us don't have any choice. But I think good technique tells us not to yank the anchor around sideways. I never do this and, knocking on wood, I haven't lost an anchor yet. You can generally free any stuck anchor by shortening up to 1:1 and letting any slight wave action gradually loosen and free the anchor.



If you really get the anchor stuck, then you're just going to have to accept that someone will have to dive on it. If necessary buoying and jettisoning the chain to come back later with a diver. Not just applying force in all directions, which will be sure to break your gear.


Bit of thread drift, but I have always wanted a side scan fishfinder sonar thing to scan the bottom in these places. Maybe I need to look into that again this year. I have forward looking sonar which doesn't image the bottom, but you can see from how the bottom jumps up and down -- or not -- whether it's really rocky or not. One learns in these parts to drop the anchor in the deepest part of coves, where silt rolls down and forms the thickest layer, after checking with the depth sounder or sonar to ensure that there are no boulders down there. That flattish part of the bottom right in the deepest part of the cove is usually your best bet. Ability to anchor on short scope may be very useful in such cases, if that deep bit is very deep.

[Ultra Marine West]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That seems reasonable. For the record, there is no way the strength of that or any other swivel could be the same in a side pull where leverage is being exerted, as in a straight pull, where there is no leverage. It's against the laws of physics. But if what you are saying is that the swivel is as strong as the rated strength in a side pull, then I could believe that.


And in any case, the strength of a swivel in a side pull isn't really even important -- there is no way you could break one of those or any other more or less reasonable swivel, by pulling against the shank of an anchor in a sideways pull. The anchor shank, subject to all that leverage, will of course be what gives. I'm sure the Ultra swivel is plenty strong enough. I don't really like that it adds leverage to the shank in a side pull, but that might also not be really all that important in the big picture since the lever arm is the whole length of the shank anyway, so the Ultra swivel just makes a fractional increase of that. My views on this have changed somewhat after thinking about it and, I think, understanding it better.





You've obviously never cruised the Northern Baltic Some of us don't have any choice. But I think good technique tells us not to yank the anchor around sideways. I never do this and, knocking on wood, I haven't lost an anchor yet. You can generally free any stuck anchor by shortening up to 1:1 and letting any slight wave action gradually loosen and free the anchor.



If you really get the anchor stuck, then you're just going to have to accept that someone will have to dive on it. If necessary buoying and jettisoning the chain to come back later with a diver. Not just applying force in all directions, which will be sure to break your gear.


Bit of thread drift, but I have always wanted a side scan fishfinder sonar thing to scan the bottom in these places. Maybe I need to look into that again this year. I have forward looking sonar which doesn't image the bottom, but you can see from how the bottom jumps up and down -- or not -- whether it's really rocky or not. One learns in these parts to drop the anchor in the deepest part of coves, where silt rolls down and forms the thickest layer, after checking with the depth sounder or sonar to ensure that there are no boulders down there. That flattish part of the bottom right in the deepest part of the cove is usually your best bet. Ability to anchor on short scope may be very useful in such cases, if that deep bit is very deep.

-I agree that the dynamics on the pulling loads and the side loads on the swivels are different, and I was trying to note that the side load strengths of the ULTRA Flip Swivels are higher than the chains they accommodate. If you are using a Grade 70 or higher Grade chain or if you are too concerned with the side loads, you can always go for one size bigger ULTRA Flip Swivel as thanks to its unique pin designs; they work with one size smaller chains as well.

-I was talking about the general anchoring terminology when I said you shouldn’t anchor where the sea bottom is rocky. Because in the end, all anchors are sort of hooks, so recovery will surely be a problem. That is why I noted that If you have to, you shouldn't at least do it without taking precautions.

-We designed both our ULTRA Anchor and ULTRA Flip Swivel, considering, in reality, the anchor will surely go under a rock, and people force it, so they don’t fail. That was mainly for protecting our product image because, in the end, if you force recovery, that doesn’t solve the problem as you end up breaking something else.