Anchor Swivel Really Needed?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by zeehag

gotta say i love watching the defense of a bad idea.
i donot enjoy retrieving a boat with fail swivel, and ALL swivels fail.

The Ultra Anchor swivel is much stronger than the chain. Have been using it for seven years without a single issue; not all swivels are created equal.

[captstu]

Best thing about an anchor swivel is you always know where your ground tackle failed.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by fxykty

I’ve re-installed the Wasi swivel that came with our boat. The various posts in this thread have convinced me that a good swivel properly installed does have a purpose, particularly if anchored shallow for a longer period of time. That’s us when we’re in the islands. Please take a look at how I’ve done it and whether it’s all good or not.

We have a Spade S140 anchor, then two 16mm hardened galvanised bow shackles, then 9 links of G40 12/13 mm chain, then a Kong SS high resistance halyard shackle, then the swivel, then the rest of the all chain rode. Each of the shackles is moused with monel wire and I’ve put plastic washers between the links and the SS shackle and swivel (no protection on the pins though, is anything possible?).Attachment 184501

Have you regular tidal currents to and fro, are you anchored in sandy areas.. check your swivel for play every so often, if play starts to appear replace it or factor it out.

[Mike Banks]

I always use swivels because usually when I was at anchor, the tide continually rotates the boat if the wind changes, which it always does because of sea and land breezes..

I do use MUCH LARGER swivels than those considered adequate, and I avoid those in which the rotating anchor pin has been arc-welded or is an eye-bolt on which a nut has been fastened by locking the threads with silver solder or brazing alloy. Pins should be firstly drop forged. The collar should be drop forged oversized, then hammer swaged to fit around the pin, and the whole then galvanised using the hot dip method with nitrogen brushing. They should then be load tested AFTER galvanising.

If you have doubts, you can always anchor without swivels--just do it fore and aft and you will have no problems.

If you wish to ride to a single rode in an area where there are wind and tide changes, start looking for a heavy duty swivel much larger in size than your chain would normally require, and one with a forged rotating pin, not cast from scrap or fabricated.

Swivels wear quickly--they need to be checked frequently. The more your need for one, the faster it will wear.

I suspect that most swivel failures are caused by inadequate swivels infrequently checked and often made from the wrong kinds of materials. I would never use 316 stainless swivels on an anchor, although out of the water they would probably be adequate..It never ceases to amaze me that a sailor will happily pay six hundred dollars for a good quality galvanised Lloyds approved anchor, then quibble about paying up to one hundred for a proper super-strength tested swivel.

Most failed anchors I have encountered resulted from bent shafts as a dragging anchor encounters a log or wreck or just discarded equipment, the vessel swings and the shaft bends, and eventually the anchor is broken or freed and then can no longer set.

TWO Danforth types have failed through being fouled in this way where I was anchored on my Manson, with its float and retrieval lanyard in case it too became fouled on a log. Admittedly one of them was made from Aluminium, and was probably too light to be of much use anyway. It was bent almost double, could not reset, and the parent vessel went ashore in the dark and unnoticed. Fortunately it fetched up on a sand bar, not into other vessels.

We rescued it at high water and set it at anchor again using a borrowed 60 pounds genuine Bruce until its grateful owner returned.

[rickp435]

Originally Posted by billknny

I suspect that most people who feel they need to have a swivel to avoid twists actually do not have a proper roller on the bow to align the chain. A proper chain roller should have a groove in it, so the chain links are always aligned with the windlass when they come on the boat. If you have one of those rollers, the twists are kept out in the water, and as soon as the anchor breaks free of the bottom it is free to spin and clear the chain.


If you have a smooth roller, the chain presents to the windlass with twists, and that will drive you bananas.

Interesting - we have problems with the chain hockling in the anchor locker when we're trying to deploy it. When raising the anchor, you can see the chain twisting as it comes up the beam to the windlass. We do indeed have a smooth roller, so maybe this is our issue...

[daletournier]

That's just not true. Good quality swivels fitted correctly do not fail anymore than your chain does.... you are just simply wrong.

[Sardean]

I use a rated gal swivel and change it yearly, and after reading this i will consider remove it if winds are expected above 45 knots. I have seen boats drag anchor due to twisting up chain in a river then getting hit with 25kn winds which straighten the chain out and twist the anchor out of the mud. Im now a bit concerned if im doing the right thing?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Sardean

I use a rated gal swivel and change it yearly, and after reading this i will consider remove it if winds are expected above 45 knots. I have seen boats drag anchor due to twisting up chain in a river then getting hit with 25kn winds which straighten the chain out and twist the anchor out of the mud. Im now a bit concerned if im doing the right thing?Attachment 184840

Just buy a high quality Ultra anchor swivel and stop worrying.

[PegasusIX]

I used to have a swivel. Stainless swivel, caused Galv Chain to rust due to galvanic action, changed to less than convincing galv shackle small enough to pass through bow roller. I have remote anchor control for single handed anchoring controlled from cockpit., but it kept coming up the round way round and wouldn’t go onto the bow roller. Then an experienced person asked me why would I instal a swivel when it would be the weakest link in the anchor rode. So I got rid of the swivel, made sure chain was rotated so no twist between winch and anchor right way on bow roller, and it comes up right way round onto the bow roller every time using the remote from the cockpit. So get rid of your swivel, you don’t need one.

[fish53]

If you're worried find a commercial fishing gear supplier that sells Blue Line rigging hardware and get a swivel you can count on. Chinese hardware is junk, Crosby is OK and I know nothing about expensive yacht stuff, just match the WLL of swivel and chain.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by PegasusIX

I used to have a swivel. Stainless swivel, caused Galv Chain to rust due to galvanic action, changed to less than convincing galv shackle small enough to pass through bow roller. I have remote anchor control for single handed anchoring controlled from cockpit., but it kept coming up the round way round and wouldn’t go onto the bow roller. Then an experienced person asked me why would I instal a swivel when it would be the weakest link in the anchor rode. So I got rid of the swivel, made sure chain was rotated so no twist between winch and anchor right way on bow roller, and it comes up right way round onto the bow roller every time using the remote from the cockpit. So get rid of your swivel, you don’t need one.

With respect, that's an example of why YOU don't need one.

Doesn't speak to what others may need.

Without a swivel, our anchor returns the wrong way around about 80% of the time...

-Chris

[goat]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

With respect, that's an example of why YOU don't need one.

Doesn't speak to what others may need.

Without a swivel, our anchor returns the wrong way around about 80% of the time...

-Chris

Turn your anchor around on the shackle so it comes up the right way 80% of the time.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goat

Turn your anchor around on the shackle so it comes up the right way 80% of the time.

Power boaters dont like leaving the bridge.. much less going to the bow..

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by goat

Turn your anchor around on the shackle so it comes up the right way 80% of the time.

Didn't work.

I think it's got to do with where the weight of the anchor carries, relative to where the chain suspends from the roller.

The shackle connection is fairly neutral, anyway, works the same no matter which way attached...

Originally Posted by boatman61

Power boaters dont like leaving the bridge.. much less going to the bow..

And even with the swivel, I have to raise the anchor from the bow... manually, to accomplish docking without trashing my pulpit... even though I do have controls at the helm.

-Chris

[groundtackle]

Originally Posted by Sardean

I use a rated gal swivel and change it yearly, and after reading this i will consider remove it if winds are expected above 45 knots. I have seen boats drag anchor due to twisting up chain in a river then getting hit with 25kn winds which straighten the chain out and twist the anchor out of the mud. Im now a bit concerned if im doing the right thing?Attachment 184840

Sardean, I you must have a swivel then I personally like that style. Do the research to confirm it’s WLL rated, officially marked and purchase quality. That also goes for the shackles and premium alloy grades. Crosby 209A, CMP Titan or a host of others. They do the math and certification for you with only a marginal increase in cost.
I’d like to see the anchor or bow shackle pin thru the chain or in other words flip it 180. This installation I see greatly reduces WLL when side loaded.
Chris