Anchor Swivel Really Needed?

[groundtackle]

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ak-183784.html

This is a good read with a very poor opening title and not totally reflective of the huge effort Greg and mantus has done to provide all of us with gear options. Interesting stuff.
Chris

[Mike Banks]

Also--it seems to me common sense would tell a person NOT to put the swivel directly on the shank of the anchor, but to put it a little above it so that it NEVER gets broken against the shaft? I mean--REALLY?

Half a metre of chain will be enough--swivels need to be able to turn freely. and once hoisted, the anchor lock or tether chain will take the weight from it.

[groundtackle]

Ranger, here are a few pics of the ‘Flip Link’ in motion. They are certified and satisfy all specifications.
It does take up a little room. The dimensions, specs and prices are on our site. The thickness designates or matches the G43 chain diameter of intended use.
Chris

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by groundtackle

Ranger, here are a few pics of the ‘Flip Link’ in motion. They are certified and satisfy all specifications.
It does take up a little room. The dimensions, specs and prices are on our site. The thickness designates or matches the G43 chain diameter of intended use.
Chris

Thanks, that helps. PM me when you get back home and we can discuss a purchase.

-Chris

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

Also--it seems to me common sense would tell a person NOT to put the swivel directly on the shank of the anchor, but to put it a little above it so that it NEVER gets broken against the shaft? I mean--REALLY?

Half a metre of chain will be enough--swivels need to be able to turn freely. and once hoisted, the anchor lock or tether chain will take the weight from it.

The Ultra Anchor swivel was designed to attach directly to the anchor and engineered accordingly.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7-hdsIKT3a8

[boom23]

Originally Posted by groundtackle

Ranger, here are a few pics of the ‘Flip Link’ in motion. They are certified and satisfy all specifications.
It does take up a little room. The dimensions, specs and prices are on our site. The thickness designates or matches the G43 chain diameter of intended use.
Chris

I would use an anchor shackle, instead of a D shackle, in your pictures' setup. The 'Flip Link' could bind with the anchor with the D shackle shown.

[groundtackle]

Ranger, it would be easier to keep track of everyone if you could email me at -
sales@groundtackle.com
or sometimes easier than writing a novel-
250-516-9589
250-516-7888

Chris

[kentobin]

Practical Sailor
Anchor Swivels: Caution Required
https://www.practical-sailor.com/iss...d_11797-1.html

In the course of researching this topic, we tracked down several examples of broken swivels, both stainless and galvanized. Although we have no data showing how widespread swivel failure is, the bottom line is that adding an anchor swivel adds a potential failure point, something we want to avoid in the anchor rode.

To get a better understanding of how they can fail, we conducted simple tests on a few swivel samples to induce various modes of failure. We also put several swivels to use in the field, hoping to discover how well they work and whether any advantages are worth the expense.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by groundtackle

Ranger, it would be easier to keep track of everyone if you could email me at -
sales@groundtackle.com
or sometimes easier than writing a novel-
250-516-9589
250-516-7888

Thanks, Chris... but... erp!

As it turns out, I don't have space for a Flip Link. I just reviewed, only a few links between anchor shackle and chain stopper, then only 5-6 links between stopper and chainwheel.

I guess maybe that's why I hadn't paid as much attention to the idea of a flipper earlier...

-Chris

[groundtackle]

Originally Posted by boom23

I would use an anchor shackle, instead of a D shackle, in your pictures' setup. The 'Flip Link' could bind with the anchor with the D shackle shown.

Boom, you win the observation award and wondered who would be the first, well
done. That anchor is a Super Sarca and has been around for many years. On that shank is a rock slot that allows the shackle to slide towards fluke. It’s possible if you jammed the anchor you might tug it out backwards. Anchor Right has increased the shank thickness to compensate for that slot. If a bow or anchor shackle gets used with bow thru the slot it can jam anywhere in that slot. It’s imperative a D or chain shackle be used with pin thru the slot. So it’s weak you now say and I agree. That’s where the specs come in. The side rode angles and loads are calculated then appropriate shackle must be used to match chain dimension and grade WLL.
That particular shackle you see is titanium..
Chris

[groundtackle]

Ranger, bummer. I run into this all the time and just don’t understand why builders or designers mount the windlass so close. You need room with this gear for many reasons, if even just to operate. Shorter flips just won’t work as well.
The bow roller design can have an effect and getting that first roller down in a drop nose format. That design can flip the anchor and works well with an Excel. Not so much with other brands. We sell bow rollers too.
I’d need a pic or two if you’d like any help with that.
Chris

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by groundtackle

We sell bow rollers too.
I’d need a pic or two if you’d like any help with that.

Not much improvement possible; the whole pulpit is a seamless extension of the foredeck... i.e., not an add-on... and the existing roller guides the anchor down through a slot in all that fiberglass...

It'd be theoretically possible to add another roller to instead guide the anchor over the forward end of the pulpit, but I'm not enthused about all the clutter that would cause... and it would likely add potential for too much force against the very end of the pulpit anyway...

-Chris

[groundtackle]

Ranger, in my other life I’m a metal fabricator in the marine industry, jewellery I call it. I’m a tig instructor etc and as I get older consult, develop concepts and project manage.
I’ve solved many anchor related systems and enjoy the challenge without having to bang on the tools anymore. I need some pics from you or links to particular vessel. Like I say we have very good bow rollers but usually can modify yours and or use off the shelf components to obtain elegant and reasonably cost effective solutions that can be done in your area by yourself or non marine metal fab shops. I’d be happy to help with no obligation. This stuff just needs to work flawlessly. It’s dangerous equipment if it doesn’t.
Just email them to
sales@groundtackle.com and go from there.

Did you folks see the new review for the Excel from Morgan’s Cloud AAC written by Colin Speedie. Pretty excited. Check out the last two posts over on CF Sarca Excel thread.
Chris

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Not much improvement possible; the whole pulpit is a seamless extension of the foredeck... i.e., not an add-on... and the existing roller guides the anchor down through a slot in all that fiberglass...

It'd be theoretically possible to add another roller to instead guide the anchor over the forward end of the pulpit, but I'm not enthused about all the clutter that would cause... and it would likely add potential for too much force against the very end of the pulpit anyway...

-Chris

Originally Posted by groundtackle

Ranger, in my other life I’m a metal fabricator in the marine industry, jewellery I call it. I’m a tig instructor etc and as I get older consult, develop concepts and project manage.
I’ve solved many anchor related systems and enjoy the challenge without having to bang on the tools anymore. I need some pics from you or links to particular vessel. Like I say we have very good bow rollers but usually can modify yours and or use off the shelf components to obtain elegant and reasonably cost effective solutions that can be done in your area by yourself or non marine metal fab shops. I’d be happy to help with no obligation. This stuff just needs to work flawlessly. It’s dangerous equipment if it doesn’t.
Just email them to
sales@groundtackle.com and go from there.

Did you folks see the new review for the Excel from Morgan’s Cloud AAC written by Colin Speedie. Pretty excited. Check out the last two posts over on CF Sarca Excel thread.
Chris

Wouldn’t it be easier and more cost effective to simply buy an Ultra swivel than to go your recommended route of modifying the front end of his boat and/or bow roller to accommodate your $100 device which apparently doesn’t fit?

[groundtackle]

Kenomac, that could work as long as he buys them by the case. That ultra ‘bridge’ gimmick will break with even the slightest backwards tug in a seabed jammed anchor scenario. It won’t pass the tests or WLL specs installed like in your constantly posted vids. Are you a vendor? Because if so we should talk. In fact I’d like an ultra rep to contact me soon before I say more. So Ill just stop now if you will.
Chris