Anchoring 32' Sloop

[rslifkin]

A soft 8 strand may be a little less durable than a harder 3 strand. But it'll store much better, as it flakes like chain in a locker. So in my mind, it's nice enough to use that it's worth using even if it may need replacement a little sooner.

[boatman61]

I like this stuff.. used it for 4yrs in the Med where I Med moored bow on with my kedge anchor of the stern for holding me off the quay... I found the built in stretch fantastic for those stormy days when the harbour got rough as swells came in with bad weather.
Many other boats moored stern to were breaking their shore lines (often twice as thick as my shore lines) under the stresses whereas we just rode the swell echo's nicely.
Never had a chaff issue, just wrapped some old towelling round it where it went through the fairleads.. another bonus, its quiet, none of the creaking and squeaking of 3 strand.
https://jimmygreen.com/340-liros-anc...n-anchor-warps

[psk125]

Your current line has lasted 40 years? It obviously works well. Why change? Get more of the same.
Switching anchors after 40 years seems almost risky, though the Fortress appears essentially to be a lighter, updated, Danforth. You only need to have a new plow drag once to find out how hard it might be to set properly.

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by rgleason

8 plait vs 3 strand anchor line. I would like to know more from those familiar with both!

A few years ago I replaced hard lay 3-strand with plait. No noticeable difference in chafe from abrasion, at least in New England, and plait is much easier to coil and stow.


Mud does seem to penetrate between the plait strands, so it could conceivably affect strength.

[rgleason]

@ rslifkin, Boatman and Ziggy, thank you. I think 8-plait is definitely in our future.

@psk125 You're probably right about this. I'm going to go slowly due to budget constraints anyway. The Bruce 22lb has been good, so we'll get chain and rope first.

Another person pointed out that the Danforth design can pull out when not straight lined and sometimes does not reset or takes a long time to reset, though when set properly it will hold like no other anchor does. I've seen some of this illustrated by Steve, in his anchoring videos. So perhaps I should reconsider what to do with regard to our 25lb Danforth in the stern locker but there is time to do that... Perhaps a smaller lighter Fortress kedge anchor and make sure the primary anchor is good for everything.

While looking into Manual boat windlass I ran across and ebay site that might be useful for some people, there are two good manual windlasses listed and some ancient gear, and many useful parts and motors. Ebay Boat Windlasses for Sale

I think the main use for windlasses is for hauling up all-chain rode and breakout of the anchor. Since we will not have an all-chain rode, the (anchor and chain will be less than 55lbs) and I use the momentum of the boat for breakout, even a windlass (manual or electric) is probably not really needed, and adds weight and possibly electrical system complications. Other boats and use may certainly merit one.

[Shrew]

I would look at it this way. You are attempting to balance two potential problems:

1) Vessel dragging in the middle of the night

2) hobby horsing

IMHO you are too focused on solving the wrong problem. In the absence of balance, one has the potential to adversely effect the other. Consider this, which is more important?

a) bouncing around on the waves

b) Waking up on the beach.

(let's face it, if you want a smooth ride, get an RV)

My Opinion: Get around 150 feet of 1/4" g40 backed by 5/8" line and at least a 22 - 25 lb new age anchor (Spade, Rocna, manson, etc)

[Apollo366]

I'll go with Shrew, only I use 50' of 5/16 G4 chain & 200 ' 7/16 nylon. I have 3 strand, but would go with braid next time due to ease of handling. A new generation anchor of 25-35 lbs would make it pretty bomb proof.

I carry 4 anchors total with the same type of rode on each, Vulcan 15 kg, Lewnar Claw 22#, Danforth 25#, Danforth 15#.

Used this setup on my last boat all the way from San Diego thru MX to Tahiti with a 15 kg Genuine Bruce, never a problem & rode out a few gales on a lee shore too.

Had a manual windless on old boat, always strong enough, new electric on current boat. Once with no windless couldn't hand pull up anchor against 15-20kt wind.

Wayne

[rgleason]

1/4" HT Peerless ACCO G43 Chain has a WLL=2600 lb x 3 MBS=7,800 lb
5/8" HT Peerless ACC) G43 Chain has a WLL= 3900 lb x 3 MBS=11,700 lb

High Tensile Strength Carbon G43 is also known as "Towing Chain" has very heavy hot dipped galvanizing. Working load limit (WLL) is generally 1/3 the Minimum Breaking Strength (MBS) for G43 chain, instead of 1/4 or 1/5 for other classes of chain. Beyond the WLL the chain may deform.

The other part of this consideration is the length and displacement of the boat.
Rockna anchor selector and selecting 33'(actually 32') and 13,230 lbs (actually 10,800 or 11,500 with gear), the Vulcan 12kg (26 lbs) is suggested.

Considering the anchor size, from the Rockna Chain Resource Page it appears that we should be using 5/16" HT G43 chain at least.

WLL apply to rope, just like chain, and the rope should match the chain strength and be compatible with any windlass if used. The Rockna Rope Resource Page shows that 16mm nylon 3 strand or 8 plait has a WLL=2,300 lbs. while the Break strength is 5200kg or 11,453 lbs. The Rocna Rode Optimizations Page is useful too. Chain should be sized only for strength, not the benefit of improving catenary, because the improvement is insignificant. See Rocna Scope vs Catenary . At 50 knots there is no catenary.

Steve Dashew regarding The Right Rode suggests using the same size polyester line to improve chafe resistance and use more scope when necessary to dissipate energy because to polyester stretches but not as much.. I know that one thoughtful person was going to replace with

• 5/8 in.[16mm] 12 plait polyester Samson Tenex; "Tenex is a 12-strand single braid that offers high strength with low stretch and outstanding abrasion resistance. It is Samthane coated to provide abrasion resistance, enhance wear life, snag resistance, and increase ease of splicing. It is a viable alternative to using double braids when easy field splicing and economy are major considerations."
• I don't know how big his boat was, but I think if you had the same size as you would select for nylon, it would be stronger.

The Viking website has some good suggestions too. How to Choose your anchor
From this chart we see that a 32' boat will require this kind of holding power

1. Charter 30 knots will have 800 lbs
2. Storm 42 knots will have 2100 lbs
3. Violent Storm 60 knots will have 3200 lbs

Also from their webpages:

• Viking 7 900kg 5.2kg 7,000kg displacement 20-30ft. 513 cm2 $229 Est. Holding Power 1980 lbs (Storm 42 knts 1400-1800 lbs)
• Viking 10 1,900kg 9.5kg 10,000kg displacement 30-40ft. 743 cm2 $339 Est. Holding Power 4180 lbs (Storm 42 knts 1400-1800 lbs
• Which suggests you might want to go one more size up to (but probably not necessary)
• Viking 15, 2,600kg, 12.6kg, 15,000kg displacement, 40- 50ft., 1064 cm2 Est. Holding Power 5,720 Lb.
• Holding power to anchor weight

[rgleason]

@shrew That's about where I was headed:
"My Opinion: Get around 150 feet of 1/4" g40 backed by 5/8" line and at least a 22 - 25 lb new age anchor (Spade, Rocna, manson, etc)"

...but do I want to be prepared for a violent storm of 60 knots? How much difference does it make that I exceed the WLL=2600 lb of 1/4" HT G43 (with MBS=7,800 lb) by about 3200 lbs - 2600 lbs = 1,000 lbs? (also check the line) How often has that happened to me in 40 years? Maybe twice at most, excluding Hurricanes which were thankfully on a mooring.

Balance that consideration against the additional weight of about 6 lbs. for 30' x 5/16" HT G43 chain and the additional weight of the anchor (perhaps 8 more lbs.)

PS
@shrew - What's the displacement of your boat?
@Appollo36 - Same question. Thanks, very helpful both of you.
I agree about wind difficulty, we have to motor when pulling the anchor.

[Paradox111]

Danforth vs Fortress. Anchor Test Video #101

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyRmRxxP_CQ

[Paradox111]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smgWTtFuk3U&t=9s

[Paradox111]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJnYRwZsieI

[Cheechako]

[QUOTE
I don't know if a vertical or horizontal windlass would be better. Both will fit I believe with adequate room below, and I have a bulkhead at the V berth for structure. The issue really is maintenance and longevity, I believe, assuming a good installation. I don't want to be replacing parts or the entire unit 5 years from now. Water and motors are not compatible, and the motor and bushings are either dependent on housing enclosure or the deck seal. I also am concerned about the foredeck awash and water getting in through the drop hole. I really do not know enough about this. In any case a windlass manual or electric is between 17-27lbs.

.......
John Harries advises "BBB or G43, the MBL is three times the WLL" (which is not heat treated). ..G70 chain used for trucking is heat treated and the safety margin is a very conservative 4:1, but it is more expensive and more difficult to adapt in marine use. Windlasses generally seem to use G43 chain.[/QUOTE]

I would go with a Horizontal windlass. A Vertical is what I like for all chain, but very difficult to use retrieving rope rode, Unless you like kneeling.

Rope rode is difficult to put away through a hawse. Opt for a big hawse if you can. You will probably be pulling in the rode with the windlass onto the deck, then stowing away the rode after under way. You're gonna need a lot of room for rope rode underdeck. Either really, but rope even more than chain.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I would go with a Horizontal windlass. A Vertical is what I like for all chain, but very difficult to use retrieving rope rode, Unless you like kneeling.

Rope rode is difficult to put away through a hawse. Opt for a big hawse if you can. You will probably be pulling in the rode with the windlass onto the deck, then stowing away the rode after under way. You're gonna need a lot of room for rope rode underdeck. Either really, but rope even more than chain.

Some modern windlasses can pull rope on the gypsy with no manual intervention required. Saves having to manually feed anything into the locker as well.

[mlydon]

I had a mixed rode on my allied sea wind II - a 32ft ketch,

300ft of 5/8 8 plait spliced onto 30’ of 5/16 chain. Ran perfectly in the windlass gypsy, no hackles at all, and stows nicely. The boat originally had 210ft of all chain - when I switched over, the bow came up several inches - very noticeable with the naked eye.

I typically sail block, Narraganset, buzzards bay, etc. No issues with chaffing, but then again it’s not Maine....

I believe I actually have a 600’ length of 8 plait with 30’ of chain spliced onto either end I was going to use for a double rode, but sold the boat. I’ll have to check on it, post in the classifieds.

Matt