Anchoring 32' Sloop

[rslifkin]

Keep in mind, the lighter, longer chain has some benefits beyond effect on holding power. It gives you a longer length of chafe-resistant rode for the same weight, which depending on where you anchor may be beneficial.

[rgleason]

The weight I would have to hand haul after a Beaufort 8 blow (40 knots) would be

Anchor 27 lbs + 5/16"x 25' chain 26 lbs + kellet 15 lb = 68 lbs total, but in 20' of water it would be 20 lbs + 27 lb anchor = 47lbs max because the beginning of the chain and kellet would already be on board.

This approach is making me reconsider the need for 5/16" chain, why not use 30' x 1/4" (.73 lb/ft) chain since adding the kellet helps so much?

I think this light kellet approach might be very easy to do. It has the advantage of reducing the necessary scope and/or reducing the the anchor angle.

This kellet could have a spliced loop to grab hold of for ease of removal at the bow and a stout clip-on/clip-off device maybe from wichard. It would be stored on top of the keel with some extra chain.

We would also use this kellet clipped to a prusik knot on the rode, to pull our anchor line down so that deadhead power boaters who choose to cross our bow too close cannot cut our nylon line.

[rslifkin]

Go for the lighter chain, but skip the kellet. If anything, up-size the anchor by the weight of the kellet. You'll gain far more holding from doing that (even with a higher angle of pull on the rode) than the kellet could ever provide.

In my mind, the only good time to use a kellet is to prevent a rope rode from tangling on a keel or other similar issues.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Go for the lighter chain, but skip the kellet. If anything, up-size the anchor by the weight of the kellet. You'll gain far more holding from doing that (even with a higher angle of pull on the rode) than the kellet could ever provide.

A heavier anchor will both set better and faster.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by rgleason

The weight I would have to hand haul after a Beaufort 8 blow (40 knots) would be

Anchor 27 lbs + 5/16"x 25' chain 26 lbs + kellet 15 lb = 68 lbs total, but in 20' of water it would be 20 lbs + 27 lb anchor = 47lbs max because the beginning of the chain and kellet would already be on board.

This approach is making me reconsider the need for 5/16" chain, why not use 30' x 1/4" (.73 lb/ft) chain since adding the kellet helps so much?

I think this light kellet approach might be very easy to do. It has the advantage of reducing the necessary scope and/or reducing the the anchor angle.

This kellet could have a spliced loop to grab hold of for ease of removal at the bow and a stout clip-on/clip-off device maybe from wichard. It would be stored on top of the keel with some extra chain.

We would also use this kellet clipped to a prusik knot on the rode, to pull our anchor line down so that deadhead power boaters who choose to cross our bow too close cannot cut our nylon line.

Keep in mind, it is hard to get a 32 foot boat up over a well-buried anchor enough to get it out in 40 knots if you are pulling by hand or with a winch, probably impossible. With the engine of course you have a shot at it. It's good to keep the option, and ability, open to buoy it and drop it if needed to get out in a hurry.

[rgleason]

Good point Don, I was just thinking of after the blow! I suppose that is the primary reason for a second anchor too.

For hurricanes I'm not planning much, except to beat it back to our 1000lb mooring if possible, or perhaps get hauled, if we are further away.

I was thinking about deploying the danforth as a full backup, dropping it away and ahead or behind the primary anchor, setting it, and leaving the rode loose, so that if/when the primary starts dragging, the secondary tightens up and helps.

Is this a receipy for trouble though?

[rgleason]

Taking these good kellet points into account,

1. Put the weight into the anchor.
2. Heavier anchor will set better and faster.
3. Gain far more holding power.

Yes, I believe these are all good points. Peter Smith also makes some of these points https://www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/kellets.php

Also this article establishes that the weight in the anchor is much more valuable.
http://cruising.coastalboating.net/S...lletFacts.html


Our use case is perhaps a little different, because we are allergic to loading up the weight on the bow (though 15 lbs more would not be the end of the world). I would only use the kellet when needed and this weight would be stored in the middle of the boat.

I do like the idea of pulling our rope rode down in light winds, to avoid powerboats that cut our bow.

Anchor Buddy https://jimmygreen.com/anchoring-acc...4-anchor-buddy
Use a mushroom dingy anchor https://goodoldboat.com/the-magic-mushroom-anchor/

However, no way am I going to pay $150-$200 for a kellet. I liked this PS article on Kellets "For occasional kelleting, try a canvas bag (it won’t hurt your deck), 15 feet of chain, a shackle, snap hook, or caribiner, and a length of any old line. All these kelleting elements can serve other purposes."



...and we have all of those.

[Don C L]

Using a kellet, like a mushroom anchor, or even one of those lifting weights for work-outs at the gym, to hold a nylon rode down and away from propellers is a good idea I think.

Putting a Danforth out could be a good strategy BUT, I'd set it in a V with equal scope, as long as you know you are facing a one direction force. In other words I would be sure both anchors are set well so that if the primary starts to drag it can't drag down on to the second, in this case Danforth, anchor, before its slack is taken up. Some folks speak of tandem anchoring. I have not tried that and I am not inclined to. IF I have to set and pull up two anchors, I'd prefer they were on separate rodes. I want to be sure they are both set well and if I have a problem and have to drop one, I am only losing one and have the other to fight another day.

[rgleason]

Yes, Don, I think that would be the right approach, and we would tend to use 1 anchor in most situations, but would do this when confronted with really bad storms/hurricane and no alternative.

Yes, it is good to know that the Lofrans manual windlass is pretty fast.

Defender has a good deal on NER 1/2" nylon 8-plait, but I have been thinking we should get 9/16" nylon 8-plait. For a 10,500 lb boat, probably more like 11,500 loaded, what do you think? The 9/16" is not on sale but I could join the Defender club for $50 and get most of that back with the discount.

[Don C L]

I have only used 3 strand and for your boat, if it were me, I'd be buying 5/8". The 9/16 is probably strong enough for your needs, but I like things a little bit on the overkill side and I also like a little insurance for possible damage from chafe. That's just me though.

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Yes, it is good to know that the Lofrans manual windlass is pretty fast.

Compared to a snail maybe. It is a very slow windlass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64IP8U_n29U&t=22s

If you insist on a manual windlass the old Simpson Lawrence 555 is faster - a choice of many cruisers desiring manual.

Neither is close to the speed of an electric windlass.

[rslifkin]

I've never seen a fast manual windlass. Until you're in deep water or get the anchor off the bottom, most are significantly slower than what can be done by hand.

For perspective, my electric windlass can dump the 90 foot chain portion of my rode in a little under a minute and retrieve it in just a little over. A free drop would definitely be faster than my windlass, but short of hand over handing a rope rode with no tension on it, I can't think of a faster way to pull it back aboard.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

Compared to a snail maybe. It is a very slow windlass.

If you insist on a manual windlass the old Simpson Lawrence 555 is faster - a choice of many cruisers desiring manual.

Neither is close to the speed of an electric windlass.

True, but the 555 weighs in at 18kgs (40 lbs) whilst the SL vertical windlass is 6.5kgs (14lbs). Given that this whole thread is about weight and balance on a smaller yacht, which do you think he should chose if going for a manual windlass?

Yes power would be very nice and later in life I may, but you know on a 31ft yacht, you don't always need a windlass at all. If you do then I have yet to encounter a condition were you went to lift the anchor and couldn't with a vertical windlass. How fast can you swing a large genoa winch lightly loaded? Well that's the speed I can turn the windlass. However, I still do think that at least a manual windlass should be fitted.

Pete

[rgleason]

My sweetheart has suggested that I just lead the anchor rope back to a cockpit winch or mast winch if I really need it. She says she'll power the boat forward appropriately so why consider a winch? I tend to agree, but as time goes on, I may have a different perspective.


Bjarne has gotten his Anchor Rode Calculator (rope & chain) working again!
His webpage blog is very interesting s/v Amanada a Boreal 47. The anchor calculator is excellent and has many options and a number of good examples to follow. I am still learning about it. Thank you @BjarneK !

[rgleason]

Here is an interesting idea "Floats on a chain" It looks like it is effective.
I wonder if the first part could be chain and then use some floats on line.

Kellet example showing 5m more of chain is just about the same effect.

Here is an example modeling a mooring setup

Here is a wild looking Test using all techniques kellet, floats, chain, rope. This is by far the most sophisticated calculator.