Anchoring etiquette questions...

[Sabado]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

No, just a very small harbor and a lot of boats. Still, while I have been a guest on a mooring there, I'd not want to be there full time!

I don't know for sure but if boats frequently contact each other while on the moorings, the field is either poorly laid out or boat size limits aren't enforced

[JPA Cate]

In the days when we had only a manual windlass, it was a major pita to have to move because of someone else, especially in the deep anchorages of the Societies.

In Papeete, where one anchors from the bow, but ties the stern ashore, a French flagged vessel dropped his anchor over where I thought ours was. We figured we could work it out when we left--perhaps he would leave before us.

What actually happened was that it was we who wanted to leave first, and we couldn't get both anchors up with our old manual windlass. One of our friends, from Iceland, went over to the French skipper to ask him to get up his anchor, so we could leave. Toby came back with a shocked look on his face, and said, "He said, 'They put their anchor under mine! They can get it out.'" We were surprised how ungracious the comment was, as well as how illogical. The ensuing effort broke the windlass, which was not repairable in French Polynesia. We used our reaching sheet and the stbd primary winch to haul up the anchor till we got to New Zealand and bought an electric windlass.

In retrospect, it made the electric windlass come into our lives sooner, and to the welfare of Jim's back, as well. ...And, it helped me, too, as we figured out a way to use it to hoist him aloft, instead of me using the halyard winches to winch him up.

But, imo it is inconvenience of moving that is at the root of unwillingness to re-anchor; and that possibly, that is also combined with a mistaken sense of "owning" the territory (and having normal mammal territoriality). And, Mike, thanks for the kind words upstream.

Ann

PS. Relative to putting out fenders, our biggest fender is our inflatable rib. It can almost protect a side of the boat by itself. Thus leaving more less stout fenders to protect the other side.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

In the days when we had only a manual windlass, it was a major pita to have to move because of someone else, especially in the deep anchorages of the Societies.

In Papeete, where one anchors from the bow, but ties the stern ashore, a French flagged vessel dropped his anchor over where I thought ours was. We figured we could work it out when we left--perhaps he would leave before us.

What actually happened was that it was we who wanted to leave first, and we couldn't get both anchors up with our old manual windlass. One of our friends, from Iceland, went over to the French skipper to ask him to get up his anchor, so we could leave. Toby came back with a shocked look on his face, and said, "He said, 'They put their anchor under mine! They can get it out.'" We were surprised how ungracious the comment was, as well as how illogical. The ensuing effort broke the windlass, which was not repairable in French Polynesia. We used our reaching sheet and the stbd primary winch to haul up the anchor till we got to New Zealand and bought an electric windlass.

In retrospect, it made the electric windlass come into our lives sooner, and to the welfare of Jim's back, as well. ...And, it helped me, too, as we figured out a way to use it to hoist him aloft, instead of me using the halyard winches to winch him up.

But, imo it is inconvenience of moving that is at the root of unwillingness to re-anchor; and that possibly, that is also combined with a mistaken sense of "owning" the territory (and having normal mammal territoriality). And, Mike, thanks for the kind words upstream.

Ann

PS. Relative to putting out fenders, our biggest fender is our inflatable rib. It can almost protect a side of the boat by itself. Thus leaving more less stout fenders to protect the other side.

Med mooring with your own gear can be tricky, especially going stern to with a crosswind blowing. In Greek harbours in the eastern Med, it is the only option for docking and, unsurprisingly, it is not uncommon to see incoming boats anchor over another boat's chain accompanied with lots of hand waving and yelling from the crews of the already moored boats.

Still, once the boats get tied up, it does all get worked out fairly amicably as to who is on top of whom and when folks are planning to leave so that assistance to get yourself free will be there if needed.

Of course, there is sometimes the odd, unreasonable idiot, also, as in your case. Would be interesting to hear lessons learned from your experience, If the same situation were to happen again, would you have handled it differently?

[davefromoregon]

Is “stern trying” effectively the same thing as “med moor”?

[Greg K]

It can be stern to or bow to with tailing lines picked up from the quay or dock. In harbours where no tailing lines are provided, you have to use your own anchor, either bow or stern, to hold you off the quay.

[kmacdonald]

Stand your ground!!!!!

[Mike OReilly]

Hmmmm….

This is the story of Jonathan Jay,
Who died defending his right of way.
He was right, dead right, as he went along,
But now he’s as dead as if he were wrong!

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by davefromoregon

Is “stern trying” effectively the same thing as “med moor”?

Stern tying can indeed very "trying". We HATE stern tying and avoid it. Quite common in BC's Gulf Islands and Desolation Sound (only in Summer!). Crossing anchor rodes definitely possible but not as common as when med mooring in Greece.

[desodave]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Stand your ground!!!!!

Yeah ... I guess that immediately appeals to the testosterone in us but imo can have negative consequences for both parties.


I'm used to relatively uncrowded anchorages here in the northern Salish Sea, and some of the summer crowding is unsettling, especially when I know the boat to be a charter. If I'm there first, it's going to take serious concerns, and an uncooperative later arrival, to make me move. But move I will rather than risk our boat and crew.

[JPA Cate]

Hello, Greg K,

Yes, I think we would do the same. Once the guy's hook is down [whether or not I think it's over mine], he's committed, he has to finish tying up. And dealing with it on departure is not unreasonable. He could have been friendlier about it, but maybe he simply didn't like Americans, or was having a bad day. I have to confess, the feelings were pretty high, and there were thoughts of taking his anchor back to him and leaving it on his deck for him to row back out, but in the end, we just dropped it down. He'd have laid to his chain, with the hook not dug in any more. Papeete in those years was not somewhere one wanted to dive, and the depth was 45 ft, or so, where we dropped--not much working time at that depth without spending a tank. In retrospect, it might have been better if we had gone over to him and asked him how such situations are handled where he comes from. Jim would have been open to suggestion. It is one place where not having very good French did not work to our benefit.

Ann

[Johan Leopard51]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It’s hard to follow your logic GK. You’re suggesting people intentionally anchor badly, using it as a strategy to force someone else to move. Therefore you need to “stand your ground” to show them the error of their ways? Is this really what happens in your world? What a sad way to live.

As DH has clearly stated, if you determine you are in an unsafe anchoring situation, and you can’t resolve it by other means, then the only reasonable thing you can do is move yourself away from the situation. The colgregs don’t grant you rights. It lays out the obligations we all have as mariners. So if you don’t move, and there is a collision, then you are at least partially to blame.

Mike : we normally assume ignorance and politely give advice based on facts - esp in regard choral hazard not on charts that the 6pm arrival could not ID.

That has always worked to date and we have met very nice people after swimming over.

If it doesn’t I will have NO qualms about taking more assertive measures than moving my yacht. The other guy IS WRONG in safety principles and basic manners. If I move I empower his incompetence/attitude.

Closest I’ve come is a guy on anchor almost next to a buoy mooring inside a.choral recovery field. A - he is not allowed to anchor there AT ALL and B his anchor is too close to my legal buoy. I did moor and did tell him to go elsewhere. He did. If he had not, the authorities would have nudged him with a fine and customs search in under 20 minutes.

[Greg K]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Hello, Greg K,

Yes, I think we would do the same. Once the guy's hook is down [whether or not I think it's over mine], he's committed, he has to finish tying up. And dealing with it on departure is not unreasonable. He could have been friendlier about it, but maybe he simply didn't like Americans, or was having a bad day. I have to confess, the feelings were pretty high, and there were thoughts of taking his anchor back to him and leaving it on his deck for him to row back out, but in the end, we just dropped it down. He'd have laid to his chain, with the hook not dug in any more. Papeete in those years was not somewhere one wanted to dive, and the depth was 45 ft, or so, where we dropped--not much working time at that depth without spending a tank. In retrospect, it might have been better if we had gone over to him and asked him how such situations are handled where he comes from. Jim would have been open to suggestion. It is one place where not having very good French did not work to our benefit.

Ann

Thanks for sharing that, Ann. Understand completely the elevated emotions in such a situation. Always interesting to hear the honest reflection post event.

I have seen a number of such situations especially in the Aegean, and most often the solution was for the offending boat to loosen their chain freely while keeping their vessel off the quay (either by engine or by tying off to the boat next to them) so that the chain would not offer so much resistance. In that way his chain would be moved while your anchor is being retrieved, but his anchor would still remain set. The Frenchman did himself no favor by his intransience. Alas, that is usually the case.

[Sabado]

Originally Posted by Johan Leopard51

If it doesn’t I will have NO qualms about taking more assertive measures than moving my yacht. The other guy IS WRONG in safety principles and basic manners. If I move I empower his incompetence/attitude..

I'm curious about this. How far would you take your assertiveness? We recently had a catamaran anchor in front but about 100 feet off our port side. He started backing perpendicular to us dragging his anchor at close to 5 knots. His anchor hooked ours but (luckily) let it go after spinning us.

He then settle even with our starboard beam and about 15 feet away (we're also on a cat).

I asked him if he could move a little further away and he cursed me out and told me to go back to my country and started drinking.

We moved and had no more interaction with the boat. Are you suggesting you would have done differently?

[eheffa]

Originally Posted by Sabado

I'm curious about this. How far would you take your assertiveness? We recently had a catamaran anchor in front but about 100 feet off our port side. He started backing perpendicular to us dragging his anchor at close to 5 knots. His anchor hooked ours but (luckily) let it go after spinning us.

He then settle even with our starboard beam and about 15 feet away (we're also on a cat).

I asked him if he could move a little further away and he cursed me out in French, told me to go back to my country and started drinking.

We moved and had no more interaction with the boat. Are you suggesting you would have done differently?

I think you did the right thing.

The other skipper was an idiot and an a$$hole.

There’s no fixing stupid & if there are decent alternative places you can move to , away from them, I think you move and stay away.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by desodave

Yeah ... I guess that immediately appeals to the testosterone in us but imo can have negative consequences for both parties.


I'm used to relatively uncrowded anchorages here in the northern Salish Sea, and some of the summer crowding is unsettling, especially when I know the boat to be a charter. If I'm there first, it's going to take serious concerns, and an uncooperative later arrival, to make me move. But move I will rather than risk our boat and crew.

Well I think that's the right thing for YOU to do. I'm sure you wouldn't resort to a violent response as Mike illustrated. That can end poorly also.