Anchoring etiquette questions...

[eheffa]

After yesterday's experience I am questioning my understanding of what is acceptable anchor etiquette.

We have been anchored for 3 days in Boho Bay near Jedediah Island in Georgia Strait. It's a relatively deep anchorage with room for many boats if people space themselves appropriately.

We were anchored in ~22m of water with 70m of all chain rode out. (Nordic Tug 37)

There were a number of boats nearby but none closer than 50m to us (I can use our radar to measure the distance so have reasonably accurate data.)

Later in the afternoon, 3 Royal Vancouver Yacht Club Beneteau's arrived together. One dropped the hook in ~ 15m of water and put out what looked to be at least 7:1 rope rode scope with a swing circle that was clearly large enough to swing through another Grand Banks 42 that had been there for a couple of days. Two of the Bennies then, without even testing the set, rafted together and called it happy hour despite sitting within 20 m of the Grand Banks. They were later joined by a 4th Bennie making a raft of 3 boats 20m from the Grand Banks.

The third boat of the group, (a Beneteau 39.1) then made 3 separate attempts to anchor in 24+m of water with a Delta anchor on rope rode extended to their maximum 60m.

This boater asked us where our anchor was and how much we had out. ("Right under us and 70 m" was the answer) His second attempt to anchor had him about 35 m away from us and he agreed it was too close. He picked up and tried a 3rd time again further away in pretty deep water.

I let him do his thing and tried not to be too rude staring at him so left off and looked away for a bit. It looked like he was a good 120m away when he dropped.

A few minutes later, I looked to see that despite the calm conditions he was ~20 m away from us without any tension on his rode. I would have protested to him but he had already left the boat to join happy hour on the rafted group.

After seeing his 3 attempts and noting that he had not once even tested his set, (I wasn't sure he had even set the anchor at all) I decided that I was not going to sleep on this situation with him so close and so we moved away into deeper water and re-set for the night.

I felt quite annoyed at the lack of courtesy of these 3 boats apparently assuming that everyone could happily swing together and oblivious to the possibility that the boats could collide. They carried on their socializing and happy hour seemingly unperturbed by any thought that they were a potential hazard to the boats around them.

I wonder, am I being too anal to assume that everyone should attempt to stay outside of other boat's swing circles? I have always made sure to be more than my own swing circle's radius distance away from any other boats.

So, onto my questions:

1. Is it acceptable practice to anchor inside another boat's swing circle?

2. If it is to be acceptable to anchor inside another boat's swing circle, would there not be the potential for significant differences in how the boats swing given rope vs chain rode and sail vs power windage and resulting potential for collision between boats?

Please share your thoughts and insights.

-Evan

[Don C L]

I just came back from a local trip and anchored in 4 different anchorages. 2 of them had folks on single hooks. I personally will not anchor inside of another's swing circle because just as you say boats don't always swing in predictable ways. Night breezes and tidal currents, combined with the shape and orientation of the anchorage can cause a variety of swings. If folks ASSUME that things won't change at night or that everyone WILL swing the same way, there will be collisions IMO. Ignorant or inconsiderate boaters are not uncommon. I too have moved rather than pick a fight, and "annoying" is putting it mildly.

[sailorboy1]

I my experience it is pretty common to anchor inside a swing circle in a crowded anchorage

But the real question is that since you have no idea how much rode other boats have out how would you even know? You show up and pick a safe looking spot to drop your anchor which after you let out your rode you end up in a spot not risking a swing into te boat next to you.

I have had boats call me when they are pulling up anchor because their anchor is under me and I have called other boats when pulling up mine. That is just the way it is.

[sv_pelagia]

In a busy anchorage, it is common to be within another boat's swing circle. Not usually a problem. (There was a recent thread discussing this.)



Nevertheless, the behaviour you describe is problematic, on more than one front:
- the last bennie failed to ensure their anchor was set (using a terrible anchor...), and likely <3:1 scope. How could they know how close they'd come to you or others without them properly setting their anchor?

- rafting up/socializing without paying attention to situation or considering other boats


Sadly, too common around here in August.



Frankly, you did the right thing by moving... hopefully you could sleep better.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by eheffa

After yesterday's experience I am questioning my understanding of what is acceptable anchor etiquette.

We have been anchored for 3 days in Boho Bay near Jedediah Island in Georgia Strait. It's a relatively deep anchorage with room for many boats if people space themselves appropriately.

We were anchored in ~22m of water with 70m of all chain rode out. (Nordic Tug 37)

There were a number of boats nearby but none closer than 50m to us (I can use our radar to measure the distance so have reasonably accurate data.)

Later in the afternoon, 3 Royal Vancouver Yacht Club Beneteau's arrived together. One dropped the hook in ~ 15m of water and put out what looked to be at least 7:1 rope rode scope with a swing circle that was clearly large enough to swing through another Grand Banks 42 that had been there for a couple of days. Two of the Bennies then, without even testing the set, rafted together and called it happy hour despite sitting within 20 m of the Grand Banks. They were later joined by a 4th Bennie making a raft of 3 boats 20m from the Grand Banks.

The third boat of the group, (a Beneteau 39.1) then made 3 separate attempts to anchor in 24+m of water with a Delta anchor on rope rode extended to their maximum 60m.

This boater asked us where our anchor was and how much we had out. ("Right under us and 70 m" was the answer) His second attempt to anchor had him about 35 m away from us and he agreed it was too close. He picked up and tried a 3rd time again further away in pretty deep water.

I let him do his thing and tried not to be too rude staring at him so left off and looked away for a bit. It looked like he was a good 120m away when he dropped.

A few minutes later, I looked to see that despite the calm conditions he was ~20 m away from us without any tension on his rode. I would have protested to him but he had already left the boat to join happy hour on the rafted group.

After seeing his 3 attempts and noting that he had not once even tested his set, (I wasn't sure he had even set the anchor at all) I decided that I was not going to sleep on this situation with him so close and so we moved away into deeper water and re-set for the night.

I felt quite annoyed at the lack of courtesy of these 3 boats apparently assuming that everyone could happily swing together and oblivious to the possibility that the boats could collide. They carried on their socializing and happy hour seemingly unperturbed by any thought that they were a potential hazard to the boats around them.

I wonder, am I being too anal to assume that everyone should attempt to stay outside of other boat's swing circles? I have always made sure to be more than my own swing circle's radius distance away from any other boats.

So, onto my questions:

1. Is it acceptable practice to anchor inside another boat's swing circle? Yes. In many crowded harbors there is no other choice. However, this is not without risks. The first boat has a right to a clear berth (many court presidents) but this can be impossible to prove (did you drag and could you have fended off or let out more rode. Remember also that you are required (COLREGS) to maintain a watch at all times ... which few do, but failing to do this would weaken any claim.


You can verify all of the above with Google.



2. If it is to be acceptable to anchor inside another boat's swing circle, would there not be the potential for significant differences in how the boats swing given rope vs chain rode and sail vs power windage and resulting potential for collision between boats? Yup.

Please share your thoughts and insights.

-Evan

See above.

[MicHughV]

It doesn't really matter where you go, how you anchor, how much scope, how many boats, etc, etc, as sooner or later, you will have problems with other boats anchoring techniques.
There is really little you can do besides row over and beat the other guy on the head, which is likely to get you nowhere except to get thrown in the drink.

Personally, I don't like to fret about it, worry about it, or otherwise let it spoil my spoil my day/evening and find it's better to move so I can enjoy a quiet night and not have to worry about some other guy slamming into me at midnight.

It doesn't happen often enough to really make a fuss about it.
Think of it as dealing with a midnight storm blowing thru'. In that case, you'd get up and take care of things one way or another.

Tomorrow will bring a new day and these kind of events soon recede into some distant memory bank and forgotten.

[Kettlewell]

It doesn't happen often enough to really make a fuss about it.
Think of it as dealing with a midnight storm blowing thru'. In that case, you'd get up and take care of things one way or another.

Tomorrow will bring a new day and these kind of events soon recede into some distant memory bank and forgotten.

Good attitude! My motto is "There is always room for one more boat." And, I have occasionally been that boat, so I understand what it is like trying to fit into a tight spot. One thing I have done many times is use a second anchor to limit my own swing in case of a change in the wind, and I also will anchor right up next to the shallows in order to avoid having someone anchor too close on one side. But, sometimes it pays to anchor well behind everyone else so that no matter what the wind does you will not have swinging circle problems, assuming nobody drags. Luckily here on the East Coast that means anchoring in maybe 20 feet of water instead of 10. Very rare to have to anchor in 20 meters. I can't recall the last time I anchored in more than 25 feet.

[eheffa]

Thank you for the replies everyone.

It looks like people feel it is acceptable to anchor inside other boats' swing...

It's not usually necessary to be that close and arguably wasn't necessary last evening either with a bit of effort on the part of the newcomers.

I'm not sure how comfortable I am with someone anchoring so close by, but maybe I should put out a bunch of fenders if I am going to accept these close quarters rather than move?

--------

On another note:

Up and down the BC / Alaska coast, it's often necessary to anchor in deeper spots. (We have ~120m of chain which opens up a lot of deeper options to us.) Most of the time and particularly in shoulder seasons and wintertime, we will have anchorages to ourselves and don't have to consider these crowded conundrums.

[sailorboy1]

well the real rule of anchoring is:

He who is the most worried needs to move first.

I had a guy cry once because I didn't want to, and didn't, move. Yet he himself didn't move so just how concerned was he?

[MicHughV]

Some years ago, came across a relatively old geezer, in what seemed to be his first boat and also his first attempt to anchor.
Anchorage had depths of around 10' or so, and the anchorage area was quite large, easily holding several dozen boats. He was one of the latecomers to the place.

He proceeded to drop his anchor, replete with anchor marker and started to lay out scope.

It appeared he was doing this "by the book" and by the time he was done, he had easily a good 250' of scope out, likely more. my best guess.

Then he set up " anchor watch" by sitting on the foredeck in a plastic chair and yelled and screamed at any newcomer that came anywhere near his anchor line.

Then to make matters worse, a squall came thru' and the wind direction changed to many different directions.

What ensued was a cluster of gigantic proportions, as his boat seemed to be intent on hitting every boat in the anchorage.

Cuss words were flying thru' the air, thick and thin, and most everyone was telling the guy to reduce scope, but he would have none of it.

I thought the whole affair was going to have a bad ending, but the guy's wife came to the rescue and quietened him down and managed to persuade him to up anchor and try somewhere else, which he reluctantly did, leaving us to nurse our gin and tonics once more.

On the other hand of the scale, a charter cat hove into sight at the same anchorage.
He found a spot, and dropped anchor. When the anchor hit bottom, he snubbed it off, and he and his crew all jumped into their dink to enjoy a beer ashore. Considering he had about 10' of chain out, laying on top of his anchor, it didn't take long before the cat decided to take off. Once again, mayhem ensued and other sailors decided to take matters into their own hands by jumping on the cat to let out more rode.
The revelers came back a few hours later, completely unaware that their charter cat was now in a different spot.

So, these things happen, you just take it all in stride as part and parcel of the whole cruising life.

[Kettlewell]

So, these things happen, you just take it all in stride as part and parcel of the whole cruising life.

Keeps life interesting! I recall one charter cat that arrived in a jam-packed harbor and proceeded to drop the hook over the side with everyone immediately retiring to the cockpit to break out the gin and tonics before the boat had even drifted back on its rode. They were sideways to the wind still and downing the first drinks before they realized that they were about to drift into the boats behind.

But the worst anchoring etiquette I've ever seen was when a cruise ship entered Charlotte Amalie harbor one December with the usual wind whistling, proceeded to drop his hook amongst the anchored cruising sailboats and then just swept a bunch of them right off their anchors as they straightened out in the wind.

[rslifkin]

Sharing swing circles is fine, but I'd avoid it when space permits. And if you need to share space, watch the other boats as you come into the anchorage. Based on what you can see deployed for rode and how the boats are moving you can pick a spot where your boat will move most similarly to those around it and minimize the risk of conflict.

My boat, for example, likes to sail back and forth a bit at anchor in some wind conditions, tacking back and forth as it pulls tight on the rode. So I tend to want more space to the sides than some boats might otherwise need, but I'm ok with being fairly close fore and aft as long as there we'll be enough space if the wind shifts.

And of course in a shallower anchorage swing circles will typically be smaller, so minimum distance is less than in a deep anchorage.

[Mike OReilly]

Generally, I want boats to be as spaced out as possible on an anchorage. If it’s not crowded, put as much space as you can from your neighbour. But if needed, swinging within a neighbour’s full anchor diameter is generally fine, and sometimes necessary to allow the maximum number in.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by eheffa

After yesterday's experience I am questioning my understanding of what is acceptable anchor etiquette.

We have been anchored for 3 days in Boho Bay near Jedediah Island in Georgia Strait. It's a relatively deep anchorage with room for many boats if people space themselves appropriately.

We were anchored in ~22m of water with 70m of all chain rode out. (Nordic Tug 37)

There were a number of boats nearby but none closer than 50m to us (I can use our radar to measure the distance so have reasonably accurate data.)

Later in the afternoon, 3 Royal Vancouver Yacht Club Beneteau's arrived together. One dropped the hook in ~ 15m of water and put out what looked to be at least 7:1 rope rode scope with a swing circle that was clearly large enough to swing through another Grand Banks 42 that had been there for a couple of days. Two of the Bennies then, without even testing the set, rafted together and called it happy hour despite sitting within 20 m of the Grand Banks. They were later joined by a 4th Bennie making a raft of 3 boats 20m from the Grand Banks.

The third boat of the group, (a Beneteau 39.1) then made 3 separate attempts to anchor in 24+m of water with a Delta anchor on rope rode extended to their maximum 60m.

This boater asked us where our anchor was and how much we had out. ("Right under us and 70 m" was the answer) His second attempt to anchor had him about 35 m away from us and he agreed it was too close. He picked up and tried a 3rd time again further away in pretty deep water.

I let him do his thing and tried not to be too rude staring at him so left off and looked away for a bit. It looked like he was a good 120m away when he dropped.

A few minutes later, I looked to see that despite the calm conditions he was ~20 m away from us without any tension on his rode. I would have protested to him but he had already left the boat to join happy hour on the rafted group.

After seeing his 3 attempts and noting that he had not once even tested his set, (I wasn't sure he had even set the anchor at all) I decided that I was not going to sleep on this situation with him so close and so we moved away into deeper water and re-set for the night.

I felt quite annoyed at the lack of courtesy of these 3 boats apparently assuming that everyone could happily swing together and oblivious to the possibility that the boats could collide. They carried on their socializing and happy hour seemingly unperturbed by any thought that they were a potential hazard to the boats around them.

I wonder, am I being too anal to assume that everyone should attempt to stay outside of other boat's swing circles? I have always made sure to be more than my own swing circle's radius distance away from any other boats.

So, onto my questions:

1. Is it acceptable practice to anchor inside another boat's swing circle?

2. If it is to be acceptable to anchor inside another boat's swing circle, would there not be the potential for significant differences in how the boats swing given rope vs chain rode and sail vs power windage and resulting potential for collision between boats?

Please share your thoughts and insights.

-Evan

1. Yes, it is perfectly normal to anchor in someone else's swing circle. You can't efficiently use a crowded anchorage without doing that. But certain care has to be taken in doing so.

2. Yes, the closer you anchor to other boats, the more careful you have to be to harmonize scope, rode type, boat type.


P.S. You did the right thing by moving. And it's best to avoid anchorages which attract this kind of crowd.

[eheffa]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

1. Yes, it is perfectly normal to anchor in someone else's swing circle. You can't efficiently use a crowded anchorage without doing that. But certain care has to be taken in doing so.

2. Yes, the closer you anchor to other boats, the more careful you have to be to harmonize scope, rode type, boat type.


P.S. You did the right thing by moving. And it's best to avoid anchorages which attract this kind of crowd.

Thank you.

This helps clarify the etiquette question.

We try to get further North in summertime and well away from the crowds. We’ve been quite spoiled for a wealth of empty anchorages for the past 6 weeks.

Getting closer to population centers and the press of boats is a bit of a shock but, I thought that given available room, it should be common courtesy to at least attempt to stay well away from other boats.