Anchoring Protocol revised

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by thinwater

"1. Winds were 40-50 mph.
2. Waves were rolling in from the Med at about 5-6 feet."


Realistically, no one was going anywhere. Unless you are actively dragging, believe you will be momentarily, or your boat is taking structural damage (not just rash and a bent railing), you're going to sit still. You could let out scope, but you probably could not physically take it in. I would consider taking out a second anchor to one side and forward, if possible, so that I could hang to a V and kedge myself over to one side, but I'm betting there was a boat there too.



Sounds like a lot of people anchored in a bad situation. Something was bound to go wrong. With that forecast, the best answer is obviously to planning on being somewhere else, even if it wasn't the place you had in mind.

I've been in a situation almost exactly like this. In a bad katabatic storm in Hvar harbor in Dalmatia about 15 years ago. It was allowed to anchor in the harbor in those days, and the harbor was full of Italian boats (it was August), and charter boats. Every single boat in the harbor dragged. It was a nightmare -- one of the worst situations I've ever been in, in my sailing life.



One thing different from the OP's situation is that rather than being belligerent, everyone was trying to help each other. Boats were dragging into each other -- people put fenders out.



Nevertheless, in hindsight, it is crazy to try to reanchor in 40-50 knot winds and especially in the dark. It was a miracle no one went on the rocks, in my case. If the anchor didn't hold in the first place, how do you expect to get it to hold reanchoring in such a situation? Bloody CQRs and fake Bruces everyone had in those days. . .



We finally snagged an old mooring line, and held. I spent the night at the helm in the horizontal rain with the engine running, not knowing if we would go flying across the anchorage again.


Those yachts who came off the best in that situation pulled their anchors up and went out to sea. Nightmare conditions in a crowded anchorage are not usually a big deal with a bit of searoom. I was afraid to try to negotiate the rocky, narrow entrance -- with no chart plotter, and in the dark. But in hindsight, that's exactly what I would do.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by mikedefieslife

It’s the med. I’ve seen many an anchor literally just touch the bottom and the captain and crew head to shore for lunch. Anchorages are small and crowded. You will nearly always be in someones swing circle even if you weren’t when you arrived , another 5 boats will anchor within yours.

+1

When you arrive with your own plastic boat you are in a bad position. There are many folks with old heavy steel monos who don't care about another dent. And there are plenty charter folks who don't know anything, don't think at all, and don't care.


We have evacuated the very protected but overcrowded anchorage of Cala Teulera / Menorca twice this year due to neighbors. Once at 1am after returning from dinner because the new neighbour (derelict french steel mono) was constantly swinging into ours. Counter measures of the other boat? He put out a few fenders and called it a day.
Of course we had the right to stay, and he should have left. But argue with a frenchman at 1am?

Another day we left at 6am when wind picked up to 25kn and several boats dragged into each other. Plenty of boats started to re-anchor, one cat was on the rocks, very chaotic. We upped the anchor, motored around a few moments and decided this wasn't going to work as the wind was still picking up and too many folks were trying to reset their anchor. We left for the sea in what became a short 50kn squall just minutes later. Of course I got soaking wet sitting out there but wife & kids had breakfast while the folks in the anchorage had lots of fun sorting their chains out.


Bottom line: We prefer to stay away from the crowd. If its crowded we go in very shallow areas well under 2m, or somewhere outside in up to 30m even if less protected. If conditions detoriate to the point where other boats become a threat we leave - and we early even if our anchor is holding perfectly.
If there is no better anchorage nearby we would rather motor in circles for hours than to be under constant threat of being run down.

So if I were in the OPs shoes, I would have left. Cursing to the other boat of course but at the end of the day I want my boat & family to be safe

[Steve Bedford]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Why didn’t you just let out more scope to accomodate him instead of arguing? If it was as windy as described, we wouldv’e deployed 10:1.

That was not an option since that action would have made our vessel a danger to others. Keep in mind, all other vessels were handling this weather and anchor situation pretty much the same. No other vessels were coming close to other vessels. Only this one boat. We did not argue with this guy once he used his inappropriate language and comments and once we knew he was not going to do anything about his boat.

Obviously he felt other boats were the problem in the immediate area and he was not going to do anything about it. Glad no one was injured. Not sure what the outcome will be on the boat that was damaged.

Steve

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Steve Bedford

That was not an option since that action would have made our vessel a danger to others. Keep in mind, all other vessels were handling this weather and anchor situation pretty much the same. No other vessels were coming close to other vessels. Only this one boat. We did not argue with this guy once he used his inappropriate language and comments and once we knew he was not going to do anything about his boat.

Obviously he felt other boats were the problem in the immediate area and he was not going to do anything about it. Glad no one was injured. Not sure what the outcome will be on the boat that was damaged.

Steve

Sounds like you were anchored in Soler, Mallorca. With more experience, you’ll be more alert to avoid these situations in the future by avoiding the crowd and watching the weather. We’re the ones always anchored well out on the outer edge of a well-sheltered anchorage away from the charter boats. Can’t remember the last time we were in a wavy anchorage even on a stormy day.

[Steve Bedford]

Indeed Sollier, Mallorca. As you know, exiting that bay in severe wind/waves as we were experiencing could have been disasterous. There were two other vessels away from our immediate area who appeared to attempt to leave and “go to sea.” They changed their mind and came back.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Steve Bedford

Indeed Sollier, Mallorca. As you know, exiting that bay in severe wind/waves as we were experiencing could have been disasterous. There were two other vessels away from our immediate area who appeared to attempt to leave and “go to sea.” They changed their mind and came back.

I know my anchorages.

There are two spots in that anchorage where people sometimes attach to submerged unmarked mooring blocks, then their boats act differently than all other anchored boats. One is close to town near the marina entrance and the other, right in the middle of the anchorage near the area with no holding (rock bottom). It’s not uncommon for regulars to let out 10:1 scope or greater because they know the type of weather can come through that harbor entrance.

A nice town to visit despite the anchorage issues.

[rabbi]

Ahh Port Soller. Totally overcrowded, but the only watering hole for 20nm.
Bad holding near shore, mixed affair in the center, but good holding just outside.

Last year we tried to sneak deep inside but left when our deserted neighbor boat kept coming closer in just 15kn of wind. Obviously they just dropped their anchor and left for shopping. We went 1.5nm north and found a nice spot behind Punta Llarga.

This year we just stayed right outside Soller, excellent holding in 20m depth but rolly.


Even if uncomfortable 40-50mph is not threatening so I would have left early. No point in arguing with the other folks about who was there first.

[mikedefieslife]

Yeah the long term liveaboard in Soller place their own blocks and/or anchors, and often use a stern anchor too.

People also leave their boats there unattended for a long period of time. Just the other day, there was a large grey monohull, French registered, that had collided with a an old wooden mono with massive bowsprit. The latter was on a mooring.

[Andina Marie]

Overheard as a 71 ft ketch pulls into a crowded anchorage. At the sound of anchor chain rattling out heads pop up all round.

"You're a little close aren't you?"

"OH its OK, we're made of steel."

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by thinwater

First, I said only if the situation was extremely serious. A little rash, a bent rail, and stuff I can probably cure with fenders (which they did) is not very serious.



And if ANYTHING goes wrong you are on the beach, along with who ever you hit. There may be ropes in the water from people's efforts. You may snag an anchor line with your undercarriage. One the the other anchors may be over yours; the only safe way is probably to leave it (remember those 5- to 6-foot waves?). It is the middle of the night and some of the boats may not be lit (you know this is true). Also remember that the boats were described as varying in size; the smaller ones would really struggle.



Yup, no doubt I could move, but whether that is the safe action requires a lot more information. I've been in many harbors where leaving at night in a storm is a very poor option.

Leaving after things get pearshaped is always risky. A good example of what Thinwater is talking about was the "Cabo San Lucas disaster" in 1983. In that debacle (the one where Bernard put Joshua on the beach) a few wise folks left in the evening, before it got bad. When the strong onshore winds developed, lots of folks dragged and then tried to escape. Few were successful, due to debris fouling their props, tangled anchors, failing engines and IIRC, a few collisions. There were a lot of inexperienced cruisers involved as well as the vets like Bernard, there were a lot of boats lost that night.

And the local fishermen had warned them that the storm was coming...

Jim

[edexter]

I think your question about who was in the right was answered as well as it could be. But as far as the "different" behavior, I note that at anchor in a good breeze our little Rhodes 22 tends to "hunt" back and forth, swinging from side to side; I need to leave a little mainsail out (she has a furling main and genoa) to act as a sort of trysail to get her to calm down. Maybe something similar was happening to their boat, not that that excuses their rude behavior.

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by Andina Marie

Overheard as a 71 ft ketch pulls into a crowded anchorage. At the sound of anchor chain rattling out heads pop up all round.

"You're a little close aren't you?"

"OH its OK, we're made of steel."

[refuge]

If there are no parking spaces then you leave the parking lot.

When you join an anchorage you must assume that everyone has a 7 to 1 scope per the depth of the Anchorage. Double that to account for your own 7 to 1 and add a little bit for safe measure. If there is not enough room for you according to these guidelines then you should turn around and leave the anchorage. Sail all night if you have to. If it’s an emergency then run a 2nd anchor off the stern with the dinghy and make sure you are firmly planted away from everyone else’s swing area and post a watch all night to be prudent.

Commercial ships do not anchor closer than a half mile. Even that is extremely close. If a ship is already anchored it is the duty of the most recently anchoring ship to assure they remain clear of vessels already at anchor. The same applies for all boats and ignorance is not an excuse in a court of law.

It is also the duty of the captain to know in advance that an anchorage may be over crowded and to have multiple alternatives planned and plotted. If your choice of cruising grounds are over crowded then perhaps consider other cruising grounds.

[foggysail]

7:1 may be true in many foreign harbors. Consider a scope of 7:1 in a depth of 20’ and a 40’ boat. The swing radius (approx... don’t feel like doing the trig) 140’ + 40’ for a radius of 180’ or a swing circle of 360’; well over the length of a football field! Now calculate how many boats can fit into that harbor and to make matters worse, some may be using both bow and stern anchors. That has to be fun!

[refuge]

Originally Posted by foggysail

7:1 may be true in many foreign harbors. Consider a scope of 7:1 in a depth of 20’ and a 40’ boat. The swing radius (approx... don’t feel like doing the trig) 140’ + 40’ for a radius of 180’ or a swing circle of 360’; well over the length of a football field! Now calculate how many boats can fit into that harbor and to make matters worse, some may be using both bow and stern anchors. That has to be fun!

LMAO! So true. 7:1 is a bit extreme in most conditions for a small boat. But for a rook it’s a good rule of thumb. Until they can estimate the circumstances. I’ve anchored right on top of a concerned cruiser but went over to assure them we’d stand a watch for the night and make sure we did not interfere with their territory. We ended up having drinks.

There are a myriad of circumstances that could play out in an anchoring situation with most of the issues involving the charters and newbies.

Perhaps seasoned cruisers could offer help and advice to new cruisers while everyone should encourage charterers to practice their docking techniques in the marina.