Anchoring technique for monohulls

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

What you say is logically correct as we sit inside in comfy chairs and type on our computers, but all of us humans are sometimes susceptible to a temptation to accept the easy way out when we’re fatigued after a long day or some other task is calling to us. It’s very seamanlike for you to always be disciplined enough with yourself to ignore your fatigue or other distractions and make sure you’re anchored securely, but it’s equally seamanlike for another sailor to recognize his human weakness and do whatever it takes for him to also be anchored securely. It’s the end result that counts, not how you get there. I know I’ve occasionally talked myself into taking the easy way out when I was hot and tired and had other things that also needed my attention. The important thing is that you are both striving to do it right but just have a slightly different approach.

I agree as I sit here in my salon . ( what's a comfy arm chair ?)

[noelex 77]

The idea of a “lunch anchor” is not really applicable to most modern cruising boats. The concept came about before the fitting of anchor windlasses on pleasure boats. It is very rare these days to find a cruising boat without at least a manual anchor winch. Like many nautical traditions it has enjoyed a long life when technology has moved on.

With a manual anchor winch if you are only stopping for short time (while the boat is under constant watch and dragging would not have adverse consequences) using your primary anchor on a short scope is likely to be as easy to retrieve as a small anchor on a regular scope.

There are advantages using a short scope in a crowded anchorage. It enables you to sneak in closer to the beach, ideal for a short swim/lunch stop. In many circumstances if you decide to stay longer then laying out a little more scope is all that needs to be done. Certainly with an electric winch, as is fitted to majorly cruising yachts, this (or simply dropping a normal scope) is the best solution rather than mucking around with a small anchor. The anchor weight makes no difference. Your finger pressing the button wont be any less tired if use a small anchor .

Below is an example of a commercial tour boat operator using this technique. These operators will typically stop in each location for couple hours to give guests a swim and snorkel. This example looks to be scope around 1.5:1 so about as low as you can go. Of course you are free to choose whatever scope you feel is appropriate, depending on circumstances . An oversized primary anchor will generally withstand moderate winds at 2:1 in a reasonable substrate. A larger anchor will have more ultimate holding power at a shorter scope than a smaller anchor so the end result should not be less safe than deploying a small anchor at a normal scope, if the scope is chosen sensibly.

Thankfully, the days of needing multiple anchor designs to suit the substrate, or different sizes to suit the wind strength (lunch, normal and storm) are largely gone. Just drop a single anchor of the largest size that can be comfortably managed. Simple.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Had a multihull for the past 7 years. It came with a bridle attached to the bows, an all chain, 100m. To anchor we would drop the anchor, give a little reverse to set it, then I would attach the bridge to the chain with soft shackle, let out another 25' of chain so the bridle rope would take all the strain, and back with increasing power till the bridle pulled taut.



Now I have a mono, 14k lbs, with 100' of chain and 200' of line. I am mostly interested in techniques for lunch hook and overnight in nothing more than 20kts.



Boat draws 5.5', I have a 3' tidal range, so I would be anchoring in a min of 10', hoping for 12' for overnights. So for lunch, 16' of height from the bottom * 3 or 4 is about 50-60' of chain. For overnight, I would push this up to 80-100' of rode.



1. Assuming that even for lunch, never leave the anchor only attached to the windlass, e.g. the windlass should never be taking the load, correct? If this is the case, then I would use some three strand tied to the chain from the bow cleat. Can I just use 1 side or do I need to make a bridle? How long a snubber do I need.



2. For overnight, if I let out more than 100' of rode, I get to my line, not chain. Can I tied that directly to the bow cleat, or do I need a snubber again, line tied to line? And what knot to use for this?



Probably overthinking this, but was very simple with the multi!

On my 40ft ketch I drop about 4:1 chain, sometimes motor in reverse to set it then attache a 15ft 5/8 nylon snubber to the chain with a chain hook, let the snubber out till it takes the strain, and thar's it.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

The idea of a “lunch anchor” is not really applicable to most modern cruising boats. .

I never anchor like it's just for a couple hours I always anchor for a 30 knot wind to blow and something g happen to make it necessary to spend a night or two .

Recovering an anchor set for the day or night is not any different.
Just use the anchor that is best for the bottom you are anchoring in .

I have been told I carry to much ground tackle 29 ft 8500# columbia
2 27 pound Danforth a 35 pound CQR a 22 pound bruce ( as stern anchor)
A 25 pound box anchor ( was free my Danforth fouled on it one afternoon )
And enough chain and rode for all of them or to set my CQR in the middle of the Pacific.
Amazing what people give away at the end of a season .
Now looking for a real Northhill.

[DefinitelyMe]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

1. Assuming that even for lunch, never leave the anchor only attached to the windlass, e.g. the windlass should never be taking the load, correct? If this is the case, then I would use some three strand tied to the chain from the bow cleat. Can I just use 1 side or do I need to make a bridle? How long a snubber do I need.



2. For overnight, if I let out more than 100' of rode, I get to my line, not chain. Can I tied that directly to the bow cleat, or do I need a snubber again, line tied to line? And what knot to use for this?

1) If you're stopping for lunch, in calm conditions, with no swell and no wake, sure you can just leave it on the windlass. Realistically, what's the worst that's going to happen? For a snubber, just one line is fine, attached to the chain by whatever means you find easiest (chain hook/soft shackle/knot etc.). Make the line long enough to reach at least to the waterline, but often you won't need to let it out that far, depending on conditions. The rougher it is the longer you'll want it. On occasion we've sometimes had as much as a 20-foot snubber when anchored in really crappy conditions. We use a docking line for that when needed rather than our usual snubber line.

2) No, if you're already on nylon rode there's no need for a snubber.

Note: snubbers are a consumable item. You want something that's thin enough to stretch nicely but thick enough to hold the boat. Something like 5/8" for your size boat. Certainly no heavier than 3/4".

[Kettlewell]

Boat draws 5.5', I have a 3' tidal range, so I would be anchoring in a min of 10', hoping for 12' for overnights. So for lunch, 16' of height from the bottom * 3 or 4 is about 50-60' of chain. For overnight, I would push this up to 80-100' of rode.

I have almost the exact same setup on my 38-foot mono with a 5.5 draft, mostly anchoring in New England right now. Typically, I'll be anchoring in around 10-15 feet of water at the most, with an occasional deeper anchorage of 20 feet. I have the chain marked at 50 feet, so I let it out until that marker is below water level. I have a nylon 3-strand snubber I then chain hook onto the chain, though in the past I have tied it on, which I then let out about another ten feet. I go for around a scope of 4-5 to one for ordinary anchoring up to say 20 knots or so, but I am prepared to let out more if needed. I have let out all 100 feet of chain in a big blow and once I get onto the nylon rode I don't worry about a snubber, but I add chafing gear where it goes over the roller. Never had the main anchor rode part.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by Orin

Note: The reason I use a bridle instead of a snubber is not because I have a bowsprit but because the chains that attach the bowsprit are really close to the waterline. If we use a snubber from near the rail and we sit side to the wind our snubber puts pressure on the chains coming off the bow sprit and chafes badly. Which also makes a ton of noise as the rode slides up and down those chains.

We also have a bowsprit, but our bobstay is a solid rod. We use a single snubber, not a bridle (it came with the boat, and change is always hard....LOL). I've often heard the advantages of a bridle, with your comment above being often made.


My thought, and why I haven't bothered to try a bridle, is this. If I have two lines, one each side, and the anchor is laying say slightly to port, the starboard line will take 100% of the load and the port (a shorter distance) will be slack. And in the case of us with bobstays, it guarantees that 100% of the time the snubber will rub on the bobstay. With a single snubber on (say) starboard, then it only rubs when the anchor is to port.


Actually, on ours, we run the snubber out the anchor roller with the chain, so it is so far forward it doesn't even touch the bobstay -- whereas a bridle would.


Another comment made is that it helps keep the boat from veering. Again, the "away" side is taking the load, and the effective anchor point is someplace on the bobstay. By running it off the anchor roller at the tip of our sprit, the effective anchor point is even farther forward -- which should more effectively pull the bow back.



Am I missing something about how it actually plays in the real world?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

We also have a bowsprit, but our bobstay is a solid rod. We use a single snubber, not a bridle (it came with the boat, and change is always hard....LOL). I've often heard the advantages of a bridle, with your comment above being often made.

My thought, and why I haven't bothered to try a bridle, is this. If I have two lines, one each side, and the anchor is laying say slightly to port, the starboard line will take 100% of the load and the port (a shorter distance) will be slack. And in the case of us with bobstays, it guarantees that 100% of the time the snubber will rub on the bobstay. With a single snubber on (say) starboard, then it only rubs when the anchor is to port.

Actually, on ours, we run the snubber out the anchor roller with the chain, so it is so far forward it doesn't even touch the bobstay -- whereas a bridle would.

Another comment made is that it helps keep the boat from veering. Again, the "away" side is taking the load, and the effective anchor point is someplace on the bobstay. By running it off the anchor roller at the tip of our sprit, the effective anchor point is even farther forward -- which should more effectively pull the bow back.

Am I missing something about how it actually plays in the real world?

That agrees with my logic. My boat definitely yaws a bit less with a single snubber off the roller vs a bridle off the bow cleats, as the roller is about 2.5 feet forward of the cleats.

It depends on the boat in question and may require some experimentation to determine what works best.

[Mike OReilly]

I'm one who almost always runs my snubbers in a bridle. I do it for a number of reasons. I speculate it might reduce our motion at anchor, but our boat sits pretty quiet anyway, so I'm not really sure how much difference the bridle makes.

I mainly do it this way for the redundancy, plus the fact that my bow cleats are accessed via bow chocks, so it's just easier than running over the roller.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

That agrees with my logic. My boat definitely yaws a bit less with a single snubber off the roller vs a bridle off the bow cleats, as the roller is about 2.5 feet forward of the cleats.

It depends on the boat in question and may require some experimentation to determine what works best.

Trick is 2 fold one for my boat both legs same length and second I always fly a riding sail.

[dlj]

L

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Boat draws 5.5', I have a 3' tidal range, so I would be anchoring in a min of 10', hoping for 12' for overnights. So for lunch, 16' of height from the bottom * 3 or 4 is about 50-60' of chain. For overnight, I would push this up to 80-100' of rode.

1. Assuming that even for lunch, never leave the anchor only attached to the windlass, e.g. the windlass should never be taking the load, correct? If this is the case, then I would use some three strand tied to the chain from the bow cleat. Can I just use 1 side or do I need to make a bridle? How long a snubber do I need.

2. For overnight, if I let out more than 100' of rode, I get to my line, not chain. Can I tied that directly to the bow cleat, or do I need a snubber again, line tied to line? And what knot to use for this?

Probably overthinking this, but was very simple with the multi!

In a three foot tidal range, I would simply lay out enough to cover me for the scope I want for the high tide condition. At low tide, I'll have better scope, but really with only 3 feet difference, I could care less... I used to sail where there were closer to 30 foot tides, then I'd be a bit more on top of whats going on with the tides.

I never leave my anchor attached to the windlass. But it does depend upon what kind of windlass...

My current boat has a bowsprit, and I run all chain on my primary anchor. I have tried a bridal but found my boat does better without. I run a nylon line attached to the chain that runs out with the anchor chain after having the amount of chain I want for scope. I run out about 25 feet of nylon rode typically and then tie it off and add slack to the chain taking the load onto the nylon rode. I tried a bridal and found it did nothing notable in terms of how my boat rides and how the anchoring system works so as it's much easier to run the single line that's how I've been doing it. Try both, see what you like better. Boats respond differently. I don't use a snubber - the nylon ride is the snubber.

When running a mixed chain and rode I use the minimum of 25 feet of nylon rode there also. That puts you at a minimum of 125 feet of rode and chain. If for some reason that seems too much, i'd simply do the same as running all chain.

dj

[Don C L]

I used to sail a Downeast 38 which has a bowsprit and a roller out about 2 feet as I recall. The owner did not like the idea of the chain ever pulling on the bobstay or dolphin striker, which I certainly agreed with. His solution was to attach the snubber to the lower fitting of the bobstay which kept the rode down, increased the scope a bit and may have reduced yaw a bit too. Now, I never saw that fitting fail, but I wasn't comfortable with that completely either. If I had a boat with a bowsprit I'd attach a very substantial fitting below the bobstay, on the bow to be used for the snubber. But that's just me.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I used to sail a Downeast 38 which has a bowsprit and a roller out about 2 feet as I recall. The owner did not like the idea of the chain ever pulling on the bobstay or dolphin striker, which I certainly agreed with. His solution was to attach the snubber to the lower fitting of the bobstay which kept the rode down, increased the scope a bit and may have reduced yaw a bit too. Now, I never saw that fitting fail, but I wasn't comfortable with that completely either. If I had a boat with a bowsprit I'd attach a very substantial fitting below the bobstay, on the bow to be used for the snubber. But that's just me.

That one just screamed bridle .

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by newhaul

That one just screamed bridle .

I think he wanted to take any possible lateral strain off the sprit too. But as I recall, and I haven't seen a DE38 lately, the roller was not out ahead of the bobstay far enough to avoid any contact with the chain. The bridle would come out of the hawseholes and could still lean on the bobstay, I think, if pulled sideways, which can happen if you're anchored bow and stern.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I think he wanted to take any possible lateral strain off the sprit too. But as I recall, and I haven't seen a DE38 lately, the roller was not out ahead of the bobstay far enough to avoid any contact with the chain. The bridle would come out of the hawseholes and could still lean on the bobstay, I think, if pulled sideways, which can happen if you're anchored bow and stern.

Long legs on bridle say 20 ft would solve the issues of the Bob stay