Anchoring too close to other boats?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

I think it would be nice to foster a culture on Cruisers Forum where members can acknowledge and document mistakes, so that we can all learn from the experience.

I would hope that members can start threads such as this without adverse comments, but rather receive constructive suggestions on how the problem could have been avoided or remedied.

So thanks Chotu for a great thread and having the courage to report a situation that did not work exactly as planned .

sounds nice

or course typed forum "conversion" is a wild and crazy thing

[RaymondR]

I carry 2 anchors on the bow roller and would first have shortened up a bit and if still nervous motored forward and set the second anchor. Nothing worse than being dog tired and stumbling about in a restricted anchorage in the dark. I would probably have thrown a sleeping bag and pillow up to the girlfriend in the cockpit and put her on anchor watch, but I was born and raised during a period when it was OK to be a male chauvinist pig.

[noelex 77]

With two anchors you are going to swing considerably differently to other boats that are lying on a single anchor.

This was described as a “crowded harbour”. The OP reports “On the other side, a different boat was too close to him too. The dinghy from that other boat was within 2ft of touching his boat”.

You need to be very careful in crowded anchorages that all boats swing the same. Someone using two anchors, when all the other boats are using one, can create chaos in some circumstances.

Let your girlfriend enjoy a nice comfy bed. With a good quality modern anchor there should be no need to be concerned about reducing scope from the generous amount that was initially deployed.

There seems to be a growing push that we should be using multiple anchors when anchoring overnight in quite routine conditions. Multiple anchors do have their uses but they should not be needed to make up for the lack of holding in the primary anchor. If you do deploy multiple anchors, consider how your swing circle will differ from neighbours especially if there is an unexpected and significant windshift.

Modern anchors are much better than their older counterparts and powerful electric anchor windlasses enable even a small crew to handle large anchors. The reserve holding power can be invaluable in cases where the scope that can be used is less than ideal, although in the case described in this thread the initial scope was perhaps overly generous anyway.

[Mike OReilly]

I too would be cautious about using two anchors to solve the problem described by the OP. Dual anchors definitely have their place, but in a crowded anchorage the best thing that can be done is to have everyone anchoring using the same method. One person with too much scope, or dual anchors, or whatever, can really screw up the whole system.

Interestingly, I am anchored in about 15’ of water right now, hiding from a good old Newfoundland gale. I have out something like 150’ (including my dual 30’ snubbers), something slightly more than 7:1 (my bow roller is ~5’ off the water). But there is absolutely no one else around, so I can put out as much as want.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I too would be cautious about using two anchors to solve the problem described by the OP. Dual anchors definitely have their place, but in a crowded anchorage the best thing that can be done is to have everyone anchoring using the same method. One person with too much scope, or dual anchors, or whatever, can really screw up the whole system.

Interestingly, I am anchored in about 15’ of water right now, hiding from a good old Newfoundland gale. I have out something like 150’ (including my dual 30’ snubbers), something slightly more than 7:1 (my bow roller is ~5’ off the water). But there is absolutely no one else around, so I can put out as much as want.

This is very sensible. If you can set a large scope this will significantly help your anchor’s holding ability.

In a deserted anchorage with plenty of swinging room why not? Chain in the anchor locker does no good.

Anchoring is unpredictable even with the best gear. The quality of the substrate is always the biggest unknown and the more you can do to increase the anchor’s maximum holding ability the more the odds switch in your favour.

However, it is important to realise that large scopes are not always possible. I sometimes hear cruisers say, for example, “I will never anchor at less than 5:1 overnight”. They are restricting themselves unnecessarily.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

This is very sensible. If you can set a large scope this will significantly help your anchor’s holding ability.

In a deserted anchorage with plenty of swinging room why not? Chain in the anchor locker does no good.

Anchoring is unpredictable even with the best gear. The quality of the substrate is always the biggest unknown and the more you can do to increase the anchor’s maximum holding ability the more the odds switch in your favour.

However, it is important to realise that large scopes are not always possible. I sometimes hear cruisers say, for example, “I will never anchor at less than 5:1 overnight”. They are restricting themselves unnecessarily.

Agreed, on all counts .

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I also talked to the guy to reassure him I wouldn't let our boats touch. Told him I'd move if we got too close which I did (by reducing scope).

I may have missed it, but if I were the other guy I would have just let out more scope too given there was room to. btw was there a chance your keel would have been scraping on his rode if pulled taut?

[Marathon1150]

I hate it when this happens - either because I have miscalculated or somebody else has. I also thank the OP for putting up the thread, its always informative to see what others think about the very subjective decisions that we are often required to make. In the OP situation, I would have shortened scope. We have an oversized anchor and chain and I have always felt very comfortable with 5:1 scope even in 30+ kts of wind.

I have pulled up the anchor several times in the past even prior to having an electric windlass. The electric windlass that we now have makes it really easy to reset and I think less about doing it than previously with the manual windlass. Nonetheless, I sleep better and don't feel guilty, after repositioning the boat when I discover that shifting wind conditions place us too close to a neighbour.

I find it annoying when others do not do the same, recognizing that the number of boats in an anchorage does influence preferred inter boat distance.

[RaymondR]

Swinging together in a crowded anchorage will only happen when everyone has the same length of chain or rode. Set in the right configuration two anchors allows some adjustment to where your vessel will swing and tends to limit the amount of reaching about the vessel does. In addition it is a precaution against yawing un-setting a single anchor and allowing the vessel to drag down onto another vessel.

One of the few times I have dragged down onto another vessel was when an inadequately anchored multi hull dragged over my single anchor, unset it and carried us both down onto other anchored boats, a second anchor would probably have held us both and prevented the ensuing collisions.

The second anchor I sometimes set has kept me out of trouble far more often than it has caused me problems. It is a nuisance to retrieve two anchors though.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I moved and also talked to the guy saying I was too close. How was that inconsiderate?

In a dark harbor filled with boats, mooring balls and random small floats, yes, it can be too dark to move.

Lastly, anyone over someone else's anchor just needs to motor forward slightly to let the other person retrieve their anchor.

More than slightly if they are on excessively 10:1 length of scope. Their very little benefit from extending one's scope that far, but far greater likelihood to swinging around with shifts of wind and current onto other boats set with more appropriate, shorter lengths of rode.

It is simple math to determine that going long doesn't aid much in holding power as the angle of the rode is only modestly lessened. Deploy a larger anchor and utilize less rode so as to not become a hog at the anchorage.

[Chotu]

And now it will become even more heated. Ha ha ha.

I only use one anchor. Always. I use a 50lbs Manson Supreme on this mono and a 60lb Rocna on my cat.

One really good anchor is my philosophy. All chain rode, or at least 200' of chain.

The cat held through a direct hit from hurricane Irma. Eye passed right over the catamaran at anchor. No dragging. No damage. Wind shifted through 180 degrees.

[Montanan]

Not only do you need to evaluate your present relative position but you need to give consideration of how all the boats will shift across each others set when they swing due to a change in wind or tide current.

Reference image below of a 90 degree shift. Things get real dicey fast as they revolve differentially about their set points and come into collisions and crossed rode conflict during the shift and thence once they get settled at their new position. Reference article: https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruisin...ree-dimensions

[bobnlesley]

Originally Posted by Tingum

...what would happen if the other boat wants to move. You are on top of his anchor.

That seems to be an issue particular to North American boats rather than European ones and has always struck me as an odd concern: A yacht anchors 60-100' off someone's bow and you hear the scream 'you're sitting on my anchor!' whilst having no concerns about the yacht that's 45* & 60' off their bow, but if/when the wind changes it'll be that one rather than the one you're currently screaming at which'll be 'sitting on your anchor', so what's the difference/problem?

As to what if you 'want to move', simply let the boat ahead of you know your intentions and they can temporarily shorten their scope or even motor forward slightly to let you get clear; though in most instances it won't prove necessary as on lifting you'll discover that your anchor's not actually as far ahead as you'd imagined, anchor scopes, like many things in life often aren't as long as you might like to imagine. If nobody's aboard just shorten as far as you can, wait a few minutes for the wind to change - it only need move a few degrees - then lift the rest & motor away.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

I think it would be nice to foster a culture on Cruisers Forum where members can acknowledge and document mistakes, so that we can all learn from the experience.

I would hope that members can start threads such as this without adverse comments, but rather receive constructive suggestions on how the problem could have been avoided or remedied.

So thanks Chotu for a great thread and having the courage to report a situation that did not work exactly as planned .

+1000 to this.

Anchoring threads interest me greatly, as they seem so foreign to me. I learnt to sail on the east coast of the UK, where you stop by driving into the mud bank at the appropriate state of tide. I then spent many years in the Solent, where there is almost no call for anchoring from one year to the next. Now I'm in NZ, where anchoring is pretty much the only way to stop, and yet there's almost never another boat within sight so these considerations rarely exist. I always anchor way further away from any boat than my scope, just for mutual privacy more than anything else.

But the more we can discuss this civilly the better for everyone.

[bobnlesley]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

...nice to foster a culture on Cruisers Forum where members can acknowledge and document mistakes...

But I couldn't contribute to that sort of thread as the only mistakes I suffer are those made by the crew, the boat-builder, the weather forecaster, the Gods and every other person/thing in the universe I can think of; I'm sure it's never been down to me. Oh Lord but it's hard to be humble... The crew too agrees that I wouldn't be able to contribute, though for differing reasons: Apparently 'there aren't enough hours in a day' to document the mistakes I make in one.'

'Too close' is also often a matter of perception too, I'm sure that we've all estimated that the next boat in the anchorage is 'only' about 30m/100' away, but when you see it from the dinghy as you head ashore you realise that it's perhaps twice as far.
Similarly as we anchored perhaps 40m/130' ahead of a yacht a couple of weeks ago the skipper immediately came to the foredeck to express (politely) a concern that we were 'too close for comfort' and indeed 'over his anchor'; as we were having the discussion another yacht began lifting their anchor, so we re-lifted and moved to that spot instead.
About four days later the same yacht came into the anchorage which we were in and settled himself about 20m/65' off our bow, not a problem to us and in this situation he too didn't feel that it was 'too close for comfort'.