Anchorlift Windlass

[vacendak]

cat man do

you may try to contact MCI (www.marinecomponents.co.uk) - mr. David Cain.

He sold me a full set of anchoring equipment (i.e. MAKO 1524 + Bradney chain + 2 nice anchors + bow rollers + radio remotes + ...) for less than 1700 GBP altogether, including delivery.

Seemed a nice and competent person, helped much in correct system sizing.

[downunder]

Cat-man-do I am surprised you are only considering 30 m of chain for your vessel particually if you are crusing amongst coral in GBR and Pacific. Perhaps it is a weight issue but the best insurance for any vessel is good anchor gear - more vessels are lost at anchor than any other way. I note Vasendak has 100m of chain on his vessel.

Interesting thread to follow as I am planning for a 45-50 ft sailing cat at present.

[cat man do]

For those that may be interested today I found some interesting information

While looking online I came across this windlass for sale, too small but an interesting comment

brand new in box high speed c612 windlass made by bada the manufacturer of "quick" brand winches.
anchor winch drum/gypsy12v- suit 6-7 m (eBay item 380306884329 end time 11-Apr-11 13:59:51 AEST) : Cars, Bikes, Boats

c612 gets me this

Anchorlift Baracuda C612 windlass

bada windlass gets me this

High Speed Windlass, Anchor winch, Bada Mechanical & Electrical Co., Ltd.

And this page says

Our company is the most professional manufacturer of windlasses in China. We supply windlasses to Anchorlift with high quality and competitive price. Hope to cooperate with you.
Bada Mechanical & Electrical Co., Ltd., High Speed Windlass, Anch...

Quick look to be a similar windlass as well

http://www.quickitaly.com/?lng=us&ms...&cs2=7&ctm=224
I wonder if they are made in the same factory like the ebay seller claims?

[GMac]

As I understand it the Quick was used as the 'here copy this' winch. Yes Anchorlift are made in China but aren't a bad winch, low on frills but then they do work OK. One or 2 of the small models are very good and quick (in speed terms )

The 'Anchorlifts' are now available under at least 3 different brand names, Anchorlift being the most common one, but be a tad careful as the Anchorlift branded ones do come with better quality solenoids, switches and those bits, not to mention back-up.

The Quicks do use better gear again including a Italian made purpose built windlass motor (as do Maxwell and some models of some other brands). Basically the Quick does have better gear, build quality and sometimes back-up.

But isn't interesting when you look close just how much being sold is being done so by a 'brand marketing' company rather than a actual manufacturer. I think many would be surprised just how much marine stuff (and probably everything else) actually.

Hi Cat. That beast of yours floating yet??

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by GMac

OK a few comments here.

Don't believe all the loads, many are just not achievable in real life. I would be so seriously gobsmacked you could knock me down with just one Wombat hair if the Mako pulled anything close to 1200kg.
There is no set standard procedure for testing anchor winch loads between manufactures so comparing numbers can be a bit tricky sometimes.
The motor is only one small part of the load pulling, the gearbox has more input than motor wattage.

I agree. I think all the numbers used are more or less nonsense. If you look at pull force versus speed and amps:

http://www.lewmar.com/cms/assets/1/concept123_web.pdf

you can see that my windlass, a 24volt Lewmar Concept 3, is drawing 180 amps(!) of electrical power and is producing a line speed of only 3 meters per minute, at a load of 1200kg. And Lewmar have the nerve to say that the windlass has as "maximum pull" of 1700kg!

So "maximum pull" is nonsense --at least from Lewmar. I think it's pure marketing propaganda with no relationship to real capabilities, and probably not comparable between one manufacturer and another.

Then let's look at the weight of ground tackle. Why should we use the total weight of ground tackle? Have you ever pulled your entire length of chain up vertically? Do you need twice the windlass just because you have 100 meters of chain on board rather than 50 meters?

In fact, the amount of chain you are pulling up will have almost nothing to do with how much chain you have on board and everything to do with what depths you anchor in.

So this is also nonsense, in my opinion.

The one number which is NOT nonsense is the wattage of the motor. A watt is a unit of power, and you can't get away from that. Yes, if you have a lower geared gearbox, you can outpull a higher powered windlass with a lower powered one, albeit at a lower line speed. But line speed is also important.

So I think you can forget these formulae, and you just need to know from experience whether a certain windlass will be enough or not. The 2000 watt Lewmar on our boat seems to be about enough (I only just finally used it properly as the clutches were slipping since I bought the boat, a problem I only just solved). I wouldnt' want anything smaller and I wouldn't refuse something more powerful.

If the windlass you are looking at can take a gypsy for a chain a size or two larger than what you use, that's a good sign.

[GMac]

Good and smart thinking there Dockhead. That is something we say often, do not buy a which for a cruiser using 8mm if the winches biggest capable size is 8mm. Buy a winch where the 8mm is the smallest to the middle size of that a winches capability.

Yes the loads published by most are in la la land or at least not achievable outside of a laboratory. Saying that do exclude Maxwell, they state very achievable numbers, not that you would want to run the winch at the top end day in day out though. MAxwell do seem to operate quite differently but then they are one of a very few who are a winch manufacturer only so have to perform or they would be gone.

I was part of a very interesting test a month or so back. We got a XX brand winch with a 600W motor and installed it on one end of a steel beam. On the other end we put a competitors equivalent winch, which had a 900W motor. We wired up both according to the recommendations and made sure each which had a very good and equal power supply. We then put a length of chain between the 2 and 3, 2, 1 push that up button on both at the same time.

Immediately we could see one winch was making ground and one was losing. Less than a minute and one had smoke coming out of it, the losing ground one.

The one that lost and was a bit knackered by now had the 900W motor. The one whose book had the better looking numbers was the 900W one. The more expensive, not by that much, was the 900W one. It was what I did expect and finally got to prove, not to mention blowing up stuff and getting paid for it is just so much fun. It was a fun afternoon for sure

[vacendak]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Our company is the most professional manufacturer of windlasses in China. We supply windlasses to Anchorlift...
I wonder if they are made in the same factory like the ebay seller claims?

You can find many similar ads in eBay and Yahoo, all of them being
"original-producers-of-known-brand-equipment-selling-at-factory-price..."
Mostly these are "cheap-Chinese-clones-of-original-products",
which would sometimes lead to:
- shame with jewellery
- loss of money and data with mobile phone
- ??? with capstan - your boat's integrity and your life itself may depend on it

Are you rich enough to buy cheap ?

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by vacendak

You can find many similar ads in eBay and Yahoo, all of them being
"original-producers-of-known-brand-equipment-selling-at-factory-price..."
Mostly these are "cheap-Chinese-clones-of-original-products",
which would sometimes lead to:
- shame with jewellery
- loss of money and data with mobile phone
- ??? with capstan - your boat's integrity and your life itself may depend on it

I have lots of product that is from well known manufacturers but on closer inspection has come from China

Have a look at the components of the computer you you use now for examples
And your boat electronics
And your Rocna anchor
And and and

Are you rich enough to buy cheap

Are you foolish enough to pay expensive, for identical product, for the sake of a stuck on name brand

[GMac]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Are you foolish enough to pay expensive, for identical product, for the sake of a stuck on name brand

Oh yeah, so totally agree with you there Cat. Many are paying a premium, often a significant one, just to have a 'brand' name on something. There is a huge amount, and growing fast, of gear with big known brand names on it that is only just that, a bit of unknown gear but with a big name on it. The number of times we hear 'Oh but it's made by XXX so must be good' is a lot. Sadly most of the time the company mentioned doesn't make it, or anything else often, and is only a marketing company. I'm constantly told stop selling products, sell 'the brand', that's where the big bucks are. Personally I think it's the actual product that makes my boat work and the name on it means squat when I'm out there in 50kts, so I look at the gear not the name.

We have just been approached by a company wanting us to sell some of their product. We had never heard of them and a quick suss around they definitely are a 'Who?'. But chatting deeper only to find they are actually the manufacture of some gear for 2 huge brand names. The price differance between what we could sell their stuff for and what the 'brand names' do is MASSIVE. By buying the branded versions means you would be paying approx 50% of the price just for having a different name on it.

No that's nothing do to with Cat, not that Cat doesn't know exactly what I mean

But then you have to be a bit careful. Some outfits can make some seriously identical looking copies that just aren't the real deal.

Mr Cat has done the sussing and the homework and is now richer for it. Or should that be 'less poor'
He's a canny shopper that Aussie but also a smart one, as mentioned he did his homework 1st.
Oh crap, I think I may have called and Aussie smart, damn I'll probably have my passport taken from me now

[delmarrey]

I have the Mako 1500 (suitable for boats from 40-55 ft) which is a piece of S**t!. I bought it only because I needed one to replace my Sprint 1000, which the gears were sounding really bad. The smaller Sprint was a stronger winch!

The rating it had, I thought would be good for a light weight 40' boat, since it was rated for up to 55 ft., and it was made in Northern Europe. And it had the same design as the Maxwell. What a mistake that was (thinking). The battery cables were twice the size of the Sprint so I thought "Gee, this should be great", NOT!

Once it was installed it seemed awful slow. And then the first time I tried to weight anchor with only 60' of 5/16" chain w/10kg anchor. It would hardly pull the anchor out of the mud. And then it got real hot by the time I got 30' of rode and the 60' of chain on board.

I complained to the local rep. and he sent me a new reversing switch, which made no difference. So, he sent me a new motor. It did help just a little but I was careful not to get it hot like the last one by touch and go with the motor rather then full up. But still had trouble getting it out of the mud.

I still complained but the rep. won't reply to my emails now. AnchorLift IMO is less then desirable. And I will be replacing it before I head offshore. I thought by going with an over size model for my boat and down grading the chain from 3/8" that is should be OK. Hummm!

One gets what they pay for these days! My problem was that I was in a hurry to get the boat in the water so as not to miss the season.

Plus the installation instructions were a little wacky on a couple items. And even though it is 316 SS the thing started rusting up after the first time out. Apparently, it's not 316L.

.

[Northbound44]

I do also have a Mako 1500 since 4 years now. The 1st unit was replaced on warranty. The 2nd one is better but...
I had to change the solenoid switch , the circuit braker, for a better brand. I also have to remove the tinny lock washer located on the motor post because this reducedcut the power down by 50%! finally I had to add oil in the gear case and lock the screws with locktite since they loosen up with vibration.
The motor shaft must be coated with plenty of grease otherwise it seizes. The oil seal on the top of the windlass will also worn out quickly which consequently will corrode prematurely the bearings underneath .
The little spring use on the pressure finger will corrode in less than a year in salt water.
I used this windlass on a caribeen cruise two time with two different units and I will never recommend or buy again a product made by Anchorlift.

[happyendings]

I bought the Mako for my tri and sold it with the boat to a good friend. After very little service, the gearbox failed and the part has been superseded according to the US distributor and will not retrofit due to the way the motor is mounted. The drive gears appear to be brass, not bronze--an unsuitable material in my professional experience of 30 years as a marine engineer. The rest of the windlass and the motor are top notch for the money. So far he has obtained no satisfaction from the importer.

[toddster8]

Well, this is quite an old necro-thread. I'll just chip in to say that I have the Anchorlift "Barracuda" that I got as a great bargain on Ebay some years ago. Outfitting a boat on the cheap. So far the only problem I've had, which may be partly due to the installation, is that it doesn't like to feed dry rope rode because it comes off at nearly 90° to the gypsy and jams in the hawse. Need to hand tail it until wet rode starts coming through. Chain feeds OK, but I've never asked it to lift more than about 30-feet of chain. It will pull the boat up to the anchor, though I know you're not supposed to do it that way.
Honestly, it sounds like some of the previous poster's problems were due to mis-use and incorrect installation.

SO, the reason to chip in here is that my unit was a "bargain" because it was a non-US model and came with a 6mm gypsy, which I replaced with 1/4-inch. Anybody need a 6mm gypsy and clutch cones? Got 'em in my junk box. Note that you can't just change the gypsy - the clutch cones are different size as well. A hard lesson I learned, which obviated the Ebay "bargain."

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by happyendings

I bought the Mako for my tri and sold it with the boat to a good friend. After very little service, the gearbox failed and the part has been superseded according to the US distributor and will not retrofit due to the way the motor is mounted. The drive gears appear to be brass, not bronze--an unsuitable material in my professional experience of 30 years as a marine engineer. The rest of the windlass and the motor are top notch for the money. So far he has obtained no satisfaction from the importer.

I wonder if the new owner has been following the instructions of not using the windlass as a chain brake. There should be a chain lock on deck, or a bridle.
In a rough mooring that would put extreme pressure on the gears. Once the gear is damaged it's all down hill from there. Also one is not suppose to pull the boat forward using the windlass. It's better to motor up over the anchor first then away the hook.

I've worked on a lot of gear boxes and the type of bronze for the rotation gear looks like brass but it is hard as hell. There are many types of bronze out there. Also there is a special lubricant used in worm gear boxes that one can special order. It's expensive but great stuff.

I have 60' of 5/6" chain w/a 10 kg claw. I must have raised the anchor over 30 so far w/o a problem.

[Northbound44]

Originally Posted by Northbound44

I do also have a Mako 1500 since 4 years now. The 1st unit was replaced on warranty. The 2nd one is better but...
I had to change the solenoid switch , the circuit braker, for a better brand. I also have to remove the tinny lock washer located on the motor post because this reducedcut the power down by 50%! finally I had to add oil in the gear case and lock the screws with locktite since they loosen up with vibration.
The motor shaft must be coated with plenty of grease otherwise it seizes. The oil seal on the top of the windlass will also worn out quickly which consequently will corrode prematurely the bearings underneath .
The little spring use on the pressure finger will corrode in less than a year in salt water.
I used this windlass on a caribeen cruise two time with two different units and I will never recommend or buy again a product made by Anchorlift.

Update after 8 years use, the breaker that come with the unit failed last year ( internal spring break and impossible to turn it off), the seal of the gearbox was always leaking, I fix the leaks with silicone, thereafter, another leak started on the oilseal toward the motor which contaminated the carbon brush . In fact, after use, the gearbox becomes hot, this increases the internal pressure which creates leaks.
I finally fixed this problem by installing an air vent.

Now, the carbon brushes started to be worn, since they aren’t available , the motor needs to be replaced. The new motor replacement available is not compatible with the former model so the gearbox needs to be replaced to.

Personally, I don’t recommend anyone to buy this product even if the price is the lowest on the market.