Anchors - Bigger is Better ?

[Kettlewell]

Griffiths may be a bit of an extreme case--very heavy boat and light anchors. I believe he used the 25 lb CQR as his main anchor most of the time, as he said the 40 lb Northills were too hard to break out once set--those were his go-to storm anchors.

Earl Hinz in The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring (copyright 1986) says a 35 lb. CQR is good for boats up to 46 feet, a 45-pounder up to 50 feet and a 60 pounder up to 60 feet.

And no, back in the day we didn't drag anchor more and set anchor watches more, at least not since CQRs and Danforths have been around. I've never been a Bruce fan. My 31-foot sailboat was anchored through Hurricane Gloria on a 35 lb. CQR and two 12 lb. Danforths set in a star pattern. Most of the mooring field we were near dragged ashore, but our boat didn't move. We had left her and sheltered ashore. The eye passed over where we were anchored on Long Island.

From Wikipedia:

Gloria made its final landfall on western Long Island near Long Beach, New York as a weaker yet still strong hurricane just 10 hours after hitting the Outer Banks.[3] Originally, the National Hurricane Center classified Gloria as a major hurricane upon making landfall but it was later downgraded in the seasonal post-analysis. Even so, the hurricane did produce Category Three wind gusts throughout Long Island.[5] Shortly thereafter the storm crossed the Connecticut coastline near Bridgeport as a Category 1 hurricane, and while continuing northeastward through New England, it became extratropical over Maine early on the 28th. After moving through Atlantic Canada, the extratropical storm tracked eastward before dissipating on October 2 to the southwest of Iceland.[3]

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by boatsail

Did not want the roll bar on there as it is weight that is not benefitting the fluke. weight in the fluke means more surface area. more surface area means more holding.

Looking at the roll bar it would seem to be heavy. It is not
I just weighed the Mantus 45 lbs anchor roll bar at (2 lbs) which is bigger than the Rocna roll bar.

[boatsail]

Interesting. Really, what I was trying to say was I just wanted a self righting anchor. More for the flukes the better. Good to know that the bar only weighs a couple of pounds. I would have guessed a bit more, but you got the fact.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by JonJo

I found the concept interesting (and can see the merits - the obvious ones). I personally have not doubted my puny choice of anchor. There is this nagging thought that bigger anchors might not set easily and might thus pose a danger. There was this nagging thought that maybe this was an issue of anchor style - the concept is true for efficient concave but not efficient convex (but there was no feed back on this - they all migrated to Anything Sailing or the Trawler Forum, or where-ever). I wanted robust comment where people were pretty certain about their views and I wanted to explore as much of the issues as possible. So environmental issues came in, carrying mud came in, overloading winches came in - I wanted to explore all the issues. I wanted to develop a sufficient base load of honest and balanced opinion on which to focus my own views for an article, for which I, hopefully, will be paid, maybe for Oz (maybe a wider audience). So I have the baseload of opinion which is largely in favour of BIB (but there are some interesting people who seem to agree that 'Bigger is Better' is not for them). I'll have a look at setting big and small anchors, Fortress, concave, convex and see if there are any risks. I'll have a word with winch makers as to whether there has been an increase in burnt out winches since concave was introduced.

I share your curiosity about this. When I hear some of our bigger-is-better members talking about backing down at full throttle for 30 seconds to set an anchor, I wonder what makes them feel this is necessary. On my just-right anchor I back down just enough to straighten the chain and take out the catenary. That's nowhere near full throttle! All I'm trying to do at that point is make certain the anchor sets. Then the wind can do the rest of the work diggin it in, as necessary. I've never yet dragged using this technique with my just-right Rocna, and every once in a while it sets so deep that the windlass struggles to break it out. (In those situations, as I mentioned before, I generally prefer to use the engine to break the anchor out.)

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by JonJo

I had thought, once the fervour over 'Bigger is Better' had died down to start 3 other threads, one at a time - I would not want anyone to suffer from apoplexy

Namely:

slotted, or tripping shanks, has anyone used one, what are the experiences?


One sign of a good journalist might be to write impartial articles but have prejudiced personal views

Most are aware that the Manson Supreme is fitted with a slotted shaft purported to provide a release under certain conditions.

I FOR ONE WOULD BE SCARED POOP TO USE THAT SLOT although my experience so far with that anchor is positive. There are toooo many places where I have anchoring experiences where boats seem to drift all over the place at anchor. Cuttyhunk is one. I can just envision my boat drifting 180 degrees and then having a wind pick up, under that condition the anchor could inadvertently be pulled free.

Maybe it will work with a dedicated release line in the slot, that is the only way I can see benefits in this provision.

[sailorboy1]

I have never used my MS rock slot. But I don't think I would have any issue doing so and still consider switching over to it. In my experience it sets so fast that if for some reason the wind changed 180 degrees all at once so that I flipped it I bet it would just reset. Probably no different than pulling it out sideways and rolling it on a slower wind shift.

In the end I bet the rock slot is no different that a 180 degree wind shift in light wind that later picks up. The anchor is probably going to flip.

[noelex 77]

There are lots of different ways to set an anchor and nothing is perfect.

Most of the time a modern anchor will set itself if when the wind increases, but there are occasions when it does not.
1. If the wind picks up very rapidly. This is particuarly a problem with a small anchors and light chain. Once an anchor is moving rapidly it will not set.
2. If the anchor lands on an obstruction. I have dropped anchors on all sorts of debris. A discarded spinaker, some metal sheets, and a sunken tree are some I have encounted recently. Depending on the obstruction the anchor may hold some reverse thrust, but it will not be reliable in stronger wind.
3. The holding is poor ( say smooth rock with a fine layer of sand on top)

The final set I use is full reverse for 30 seconds. After lots of observing of the anchor I have come to the conclusion that this is equivalent to the same force as about 30-35k of wind.
If the anchor holds this force (which it nearly always does) I know it has been tested up to 30-35K. Above this all bets are off.
Generally with more wind the anchor will just set deeper, but there is no way of knowing for sure.

The less reverse you use the more you enter the unknown as the wind increases.

There are some alternative views. Some people like to drop the anchor and let it sit ( even if there is little wind) before reversing and setting it. This is a very popular technique with CQR anchors.
I have heard this so many times hat here must be some truth in it. I am still a bit skeptical if dive and look at the anchor ( in light wind) nothing seems to change, but bizarrely it does seem to make some anchors set instead of skidding along the bottom.
In moderate wind its easy to see how the rocking and gentle tugging does help settle the anchor into the substrate, before the main set. It is technique that's worth trying, if nothing else works, but it unnecessary with a modern anchor that will set reliably, without the need to wait.

Diving on anchors typically in anchorage only about 1/3 -1/2 of anchors are set at all. Perhaps only half of these will be well set. Most of the time unset anchors will set themselves, but its much better to give them a good head start.

[Cotemar]

The rock slot just adds a bit more complexity to anchoring.
Do I need the slot this time? Yes or No
Do I have the shackle in the right location? Yes or No
Will this thing jam at 2am if a squall blows through here? Who the @#^&$ said it would never happen.
Is the shackle tight? Yes or No
How long will I be anchored here, should I put tie wire on the shackle? Yes or No
Oh, Sheet the boat is drifting while I decide what to do.

Just tie an anchor float to the roll bar and if it’s stuck under a rock just drive up to the anchor float and pull on it with a boat hook. Life is Good

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by JonJo

A quick comment on environmentalists and anchoring.

I'm a sceptic, I have no evidence that anchoring damages seabeds in the long term. I disagree with the concept and have publication (in Oz) on paper, not ephemeral electronic media, saying the same. It is possible anchoring damages seabeds (I have an open mind). I have seen no scientific basis for closing of anchorages based on damage by anchors of any description.

Anchorages used over decades have commonly be chosen to provide sanctuary for mariners in times of weather that might endanger life and to close those anchorages without real and in depth analysis looks short sighted.

OK, I'm a Luddite.

I don't think you're a Luddite. I have also not seen any evidence that anchoring damages the sea bed and I don't think it's right to jump to the conclusion that it does. For all we know, it might be actually beneficial to the sea bed to turn it over once in a while, like we do with lawns.

In fact, the only really extensive study I know about was done in Studland Bay on the South Coast of England, a lovely anchorage where I have spent many a happy night. Studland Bay is the habitat of a rare type of seahorse so under much scrutiny by environmentalists.

Well, the multi-year extensive study concluded that there is no evidence that anchoring does any harm to the marine habitat. The small no-anchor zone which was used as a control for the study was eliminated last summer, so now once again you can anchor wherever you please there. See: BBC News - Studland Bay seahorse no-anchor zone lifted

Here's the full study: http://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/medi...g%20report.pdf


I have been watching these concave versus convex conversations with a certain amount of amusement. Anything to create factions and stir up trouble! I don't know why discord follows anchoring wherever it goes.

For goodness sake, use whatever works for you. I don't think that a theoretical difference between convex and concave really tells us much meaningful by itself. Obviously there are poor (CQR) and marginal (Delta) convex anchors, but they have been around much longer, so so what? That doesn't mean that new generation convex anchors like the Sarca are poor or marginal. Try one and make up your own mind.

I liked my Rocna but like my Spade much better -- it simply works for me, which does not mean that everything else is carp. It is certainly true and obviously true that concave anchors bring up a lot of mud from the sea bed - it's inherent to the shape. So what? Just let the anchor dangle just below the surface while you slowly get under way, and it will be clean in a few seconds. Boy if this were the biggest problem when anchoring . . .

[Hydra]

I have also not seen any evidence that anchoring damages the sea bed and I don't think it's right to jump to the conclusion that it does.

It seems to be proven that anchoring frequently in "Posidonia Oceanica" meadows ruins thems. See for example:
ScienceDirect.com - Journal of Experimental Marine Biology and Ecology - Boat anchoring on Posidonia oceanica beds in a marine protected area (Italy, western Mediterranean): effect of anchor types in different anchoring stages

Of course, this refers to anchorages where thousands of yachts drop anchor every day.

Alain

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by Hydra

It seems to be proven that anchoring frequently in "Posidonia Oceanica" meadows ruins thems. See for example:
ScienceDirect.com - Journal of Experimental Marine Biology and Ecology - Boat anchoring on Posidonia oceanica beds in a marine protected area (Italy, western Mediterranean): effect of anchor types in different anchoring stages

Of course, this refers to anchorages where thousands of yachts drop anchor every day.

Alain

I believe this is just plain old bull poop!!! I wish the weeds in my front lawn were as fragile as the whackies claim ocean bottom is.

Has anybody been following the Lunny's case at Point Reyes National Seashore?? The WSJ has had several articles detailing the Lunny's plight.

The Lunnys purchased an oyster farm that operates at Point Reyes back in 2005. The original owner signed an agreement with the federal government to close the farm after 40 years. Lunny purchased the farm, supplies fresh oysters to the local community, employs 30 people who will lose their jobs because now that 40 years have elapsed, the Department of Interior demands the farm be shuttered..... to protect the seashore!

Lunny has taken the feds to court where it will be argued. Senator Feinstein has filed bills to help the Lunnys but I don't think they have become laws. Just plain crazy the demands radical environmentalist make on people just trying to live. I would love to gather all the whackies and stuff them down my macerator........and if they cannot fit.......well they can stay in the tank the macerator empties!

Foggy

[sabray]

I'm going to throw out my idiot thought. Pretty sure that bigger anchors are not hurting reefs
Also think that increased change in environment will have effect.
In my neighborhood if one house stopped being a supplier of crack and baby's there would be a significant improvement to my local environment.
Relevant because that house thinks its all good. They can't see that they are effecting environment. It is not measured any where. I can't price it. I am pretty sure that the yellow house effects my environment.
Hey bigger is better lets get bigger and never mind why we need to get bigger.
100 lb anchor. I got 30 years of sailing and I have never seen anything like that. Except on freighters.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Bash

Seriously? "ammunittion [SIC] for the green groops" [SIC]? Parks and wild life[SIC] officers doing all that siffting [SIC]?

That's a bit of paranoia. Most anchoring bans are there to protect the coral from the rodes, not to protect the substrate.

In Queensland, Australia we have significant sea grass beds, grazing/feeding areas for our Dugong (seacow similar to the USA manatee). These areas are considered under threat.

The environmental lobby here can at times exert significant pressure on legislative processes.

Just spent a week on a charter in the Whitsundays with most of the time using moorings in the coral areas. Most of the Whitsunday charter vessels use what looks like a localy welded Delta type anchor, certainly not BIB and they held well in the good mud anchorages such as Cid harbor and Nara Inlet( for the locals) in the 25-35 knots we had for much of the week due to a cyclone offshore.

Saw an article recently from memory in a boating magazine discussing a study done by national parks possibly in conjunction with a University that showed overhead photos of mooring areas showing circular patterns in a anchorage by chains disturbing the ground fauna. This study was used as justification for putting in a mooring field with proper moorings and to stop anchoring in that area.

Unfortunately this will be repeated in our area and it is no longer paranoia but real. I was not aware of the situation as outlined by congo in Victoria not being a local but having dived port Phillip Bay and other areas of Victoria I can understand the situation and concern of the whiting fishermen.

[Steve Pope]

I have seen a rockna used in rocky / coral areas with the chain shackled to the hole in the heel of the anchor and the chain tied to the normal shackle position with small stuff, although a few heavy cable ties would work as well, if / when it is caught in the rocks a strong pull will break the small stuff and allow an easy retrieval of the anchor. Not to be used over night.

[Andrew Troup]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

....I'm looking right now at Maurice Griffith's book Blue Water, copyright 1979--about when I got my first boat. His Awahnee was 53-feet overall...

Any relation to Bob Griffiths ?

He was a pretty enterprising guy. Remember how he self rescued through a Red Sea reef, making a new passage with the help of a case of dynamite?

(Not sure how well that would go down, these days !)