Anchors - Bigger is Better ?

[Snowpetrel]

Wow. Very impresive. I never got my 45lb manson cqr and 27lb fishermans to set in trousers bay in a 25 knot easterly. The Bottom seemed like some really hard sand/gravel with patches of weed. I spent about 2 hours trying all my tricks with both anchors in tandem. Using a bathyscope from the dingy to see if they were biting. No luck. Just ended up sat on the 40 or so meters of chain with enough weight down to stop her moving and with no confidence.. I was hoping to climb strezleki but didn't dare leave the boat.

That place is the only reason I am looking into a next G anchor...

Any idea what the other boat was anchored with?

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Wow. Very impresive. I never got my 45lb manson cqr and 27lb fishermans to set in trousers bay in a 25 knot easterly. The Bottom seemed like some really hard sand/gravel with patches of weed. I spent about 2 hours trying all my tricks with both anchors in tandem. Using a bathyscope from the dingy to see if they were biting. No luck. Just ended up sat on the 40 or so meters of chain with enough weight down to stop her moving and with no confidence.. I was hoping to climb strezleki but didn't dare leave the boat.

That place is the only reason I am looking into a next G anchor...

Any idea what the other boat was anchored with?

Says 27lb SARCA Excel in video.

[noelex 77]

That's impressive.

I do anchor in those sort of conditions much more often than I would like.
At the moment, as I type this, its nothing exceptional but its gusting to over 45 knots.

I took a photo about 5mins ago just to illustrate the point. (although note at these windspeeds a small increase makes a big difference 55k is much worse than 45).

Small (as I would call them), or appropriately sized (as the manufacturers call them) anchors do hold at these windspeeds, but they do not do so reliably.

I notice the notes on the video say the forecast was for only 20k. This is part of the problem for those advocating multiple smaller anchors. Sooner or later you will be hit by 50k when you were expecting 20k. If your strategy is to lay out multiple anchors in stronger wind this creates problems. Laying out another anchor before a blow is fine, but if these conditions arrive unexpectedly is difficult and sometimes even dangerous to try and set another anchor. The strong wind always seems to arrive at 2am further complicating deployment.

With the one big anchor stratergy it is always there no matter if the reality does match the forecast.

[JonJo]

I just thought it a great piece of filming - and credit to the crew.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by downunder

Says 27lb SARCA Excel in video.

Looked to me like there was another bigger boat in the same anchorage?

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by JonJo

I just thought it a great piece of filming - and credit to the crew.

Ha.. Yes, indeed it is. Im normally too busy rowing out extra anchors to be bothered filming... Actually looks like a north or NE wind blowing offshore so I would more likely be slabing in the third reef and stowing the dink just incase. Better a quick clean getaway in case the anchor lets go.

Kangaroo Island nearby to the west would have a much more steady breeze. Probably nearer the forecast.

Very Impressed the anchor held in that bottom.

[Kettlewell]

By the way, we have Granny Smith apples here in the USA too! I'm not sure why it is considered to be difficult to set a second anchor. If I didn't feel it was safe to do it in the dinghy, I would just motor up very slowly at an angle to the main anchor, drop the second, and fall back, adjusting the rodes to take up the tension. Another option, depending on how much scope you have out on the first anchor, is simply to drop the second anchor where you are, then pay out more scope on the main anchor until you have a decent amount on the second. I've done it hundreds of times. There is no magic to it--they don't have to be exactly the same length or at a particular angle.

[Fortress]

Boater safety is always the ultimate goal, no matter which anchor is used. Bravo Sarca!

Well done,
Brian

[sailorboy1]

sometimes I feel the real purpose of anchor threads is to made you always worry about it no matter what anchoring system you have

[Steve Pope]

We have Granny Smith apples too, a heritage apple, Don't know of any yachts of that name in NZ though.
Anchor threads, are just that, unfortunately personalities intrude, He said, you said, no I didn't!!! Yes you did!! Saving grace, it gives you something to do while the coffee cools and occasionally some worth while info.

[Andrew Troup]

For many years an apple-green Farr 38 (I think I'm right about the length) called Granny Apple, (part?)owned by a guy nicknamed "Granny", sailed/raced out of Lyttelton NZ, often sharing honours with a similar boat called Natural Magic. Don't know where she is now.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I'm not sure why it is considered to be difficult to set a second anchor. If I didn't feel it was safe to do it in the dinghy, I would just motor up very slowly at an angle to the main anchor, drop the second, and fall back, adjusting the rodes to take up the tension. Another option, depending on how much scope you have out on the first anchor, is simply to drop the second anchor where you are, then pay out more scope on the main anchor until you have a decent amount on the second. I've done it hundreds of times. There is no magic to it--they don't have to be exactly the same length or at a particular angle.

+1 Very True. I always make sure I have a rope rode on the second anchor, not all chain so I can untangle or cut it if needed.

For me Ive always found it better to put more of the load on the anchor with the rope. Then there's less chance of it getting wrapped around something like the rudder or keel.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Many vessel particuarly in Australia require a proof loaded anchor

which ones? apart from survey vessels?

Any way - for information here is a link to the Australian and New Zealnd Standards for anchoring systems, test etc.

National standards for commercial Vessels, Anchoring

Oh and one other thing, every time I mention the importance of an anchors ability to reset Noelex suggests that I am sadly mistaken, anchors dont need to rest - they don't unset if a good proper anchor. I respectfully disagree with him, and so does one of the worlds biggest anchor manufacturers - Manson.

During a 180 degree instant wind shift ALL anchors can pull out. It's what can happen.

Manson's words - not mine

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Andrew Troup

For many years an apple-green Farr 38 (I think I'm right about the length) called Granny Apple, (part?)owned by a guy nicknamed "Granny", sailed/raced out of Lyttelton NZ, often sharing honours with a similar boat called Natural Magic. Don't know where she is now.

Hi Andrew. She is here in Kettering. Painted blue with the rotating bowsprit removed. She's still racing hard. I did a trans tasman Race (wellington-syd 1993ish?) on Whispers (the spencer 45) I think granny apple also was in that race.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Factor

which ones? apart from survey vessels?

Any way - for information here is a link to the Australian and New Zealnd Standards for anchoring systems, test etc.

National standards for commercial Vessels, Anchoring

The table on page 16 is interesting for the OP. it says (for example) for a vessel (class a or b) that is 15 m long and 2 m high, the required anchor mass is 50kg. That's is exactly what we have decided by experience, but most "yachtsmen" consider that much bigger than necessary. And if you were somehow oing to take our rig wind age into account, it would demand even bigger. So, this suggests practically speaking they think bigger is not only better but necessary.

Regarding the discussion above about anchor shank load testing . . . Neither of the procedures shown in the posted photos meet the test procedure detailed in this document. In particular, it requires the load be placed off axis both horizontally (30 degrees) and vertically (45 degrees) simultaneously ( one presumes to simulate potential bending forces on the anchor in a wind shift, or stuck in rocks).