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Old 30-05-2022, 08:08   #16
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Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Best thing to solve this environmental calamity is:

- introduce regulations immediately

- ban anchoring in all carefully defined and mapped anchor sensitive areas, lets call them Reduced Environmental Damage (RED) zones, lets limit that to say no more than 90% of all potential anchoring areas, to be safe, it the precautionary principle

- create the Anchoring Compliance Force (ACF), equip them with swat style uniforms with Batman style utility belts to carry their torches, radios, vest cams etc and give them full power to board, search, detain, fine, confiscate etc

- introduce an anchoring levy that automatically deducts from your bank account whenever you activate your anchor winch

Here's a suggestion to the researchers - grab a frigging map and have a look at the the amount of blue stuff around the brown stuff and engage your brains for a change.

BOHICA.
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Old 30-05-2022, 09:07   #17
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Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Some of the comments, here, seem to be of the "blame the messenger" type.


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Old 30-05-2022, 09:10   #18
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Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

6.000 km2 is 0,0016 percent of the ocean area.

Stuff like this draws attention away from the real problems, of which there are plenty.
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Old 30-05-2022, 10:09   #19
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Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Blaming the messenger? No kidding !!
We all want to anchor wherever we want to anchor, but to think that there is no damage from that is wishful thinking. We learn more about ocean damage from our human activities all the time. This is about commercial shipping and the results of increased shipping and port congestion.
But it is nothing new. We know about the damage our anchoring can do to coral and to eelgrass beds, for example. Should we not make changes in our practices if we can? Like maybe restricting some anchorages to specific areas to allow eelgrass beds to regenerate nearby? I've always thought that as sailors we were interested in preserving a natural environment, and that's under the water too.
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Old 30-05-2022, 11:22   #20
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Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowdrie View Post
I wonder if any correlation was established in which the nationality of the offending ships was noted, (what flag do they fly).
I have strong suspicions that a majority are what might be referred to as 2nd/3rd world countries.
Send them the bill for assumed damages to the seabed and released carbon.
Well, who are the customers who bought products from those 2nd/3rd world countries that could have bought those products locally?
Send them the bill as part of the shipment fees so next time they may change their mind.
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Old 30-05-2022, 12:39   #21
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Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

I'm really surprised by the negative reactions and comments. I had always thought that cruisers took enjoyment from their environment and it was one of the reasons to go sailing. The study was based at Picton, a port in a very special place called the Marlborough Sounds. Picton is right at the top and we now know it was a very stupid place to locate a port.

Personally I think that the authors went over their brief to extrapolate, but freedom of expression and all that bs.

But I confess to not having for a moment seen a racism bomb being dropped in on an anchor discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowdrie View Post
I wonder if any correlation was established in which the nationality of the offending ships was noted, (what flag do they fly).
I have strong suspicions that a majority are what might be referred to as 2nd/3rd world countries.
Send them the bill for assumed damages to the seabed and released carbon.
...
I guess the anchors of the ships flagged in your country Bowdri don't cause any damage, just like your sh!t doesn't stink.

But what I had expected (hoped) in drawing your attention to the study was an awareness. And no one was suggesting an anchor Police
BOHICA. What an especially nasty and yes stupid post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winf View Post
Best thing to solve this environmental calamity is:
- introduce regulations immediately
- ban anchoring in all carefully defined and mapped anchor sensitive areas, lets call them Reduced Environmental Damage (RED) zones, lets limit that to say no more than 90% of all potential anchoring areas, to be safe, it the precautionary principle
- create the Anchoring Compliance Force (ACF), equip them with swat style uniforms with Batman style utility belts to carry their torches, radios, vest cams etc and give them full power to board, search, detain, fine, confiscate etc
- introduce an anchoring levy that automatically deducts from your bank account whenever you activate your anchor winch
Here's a suggestion to the researchers - grab a frigging map and have a look at the the amount of blue stuff around the brown stuff and engage your brains for a change. BOHICA.
And Chris wouldn't it have been a great service to humanity if before the extensive use of tetraethyl lead in petrol and then CFCs in cans that the warnings from the many serious studies that had been undertaken to ascertain that actually they were really really bad ideas for health, and perhaps shouldn't have been widely used. It was certainly well know in the 1920s that lead poisoning was no fun.

But TEL made money for Standard Oil, and GM. And Chris it took nearly a hundred years of 'waiting' and resulted in countless deaths

And by the way 'we' didn't discover the TEL additive for petrol nor chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs). That was all to the credit of Thomas Midgley, Jr. who will, I hope, forever hold the record for creating more damage than anyone else who has or ever will live.

But Chris I appreciate your sentiment that humanity (call it what it really is, science) will usually come up with a solution. Trouble is the disasters caused while 'we' wait sometimes can't be fixed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisOwens View Post
When we discovered that leaded motor fuel was poisoning us, the alternative wasn't to stop driving, it was to develop improved fuels and engine technology. And it was a huge success: lead levels are way down.
When we discovered that CFC refrigerants and propellants were trashing the ozone layer, we didn't stop having air conditioners or products in aerosol containers; we developed superior alternatives. And the result was a reversal of the environmental damage that was nothing short of spectacular: one of the true success stories for environmental protection
So why are people cynically ridiculing this article that points out seafloor damage from anchoring and saying, sarcastically, "Well, then we'll all have to stop shipping and commerce, or let our ships run aground on beaches?"
What has happened to people's ingenuity and willingness to look for solutions to problems?
As with the absurdly racist dimension dropped in above, I don't feel that anchoring is a concern up there with TEL and CFS. The comparison strikes me as a poor one.

Nor is this study a political one on behalf of the marina industry. Had nothing whatsoever to do with small boats, it's all about ships. Although our own anchors do cause damage, we all know that. So be aware, and I hope try to minimise your own footprint.

What was that you said GrandMa? Oh right, I remember now, 'if you've nothing good to say then don't say anything'.
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Old 30-05-2022, 12:40   #22
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Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Manufacturing, construction, transportation, agriculture and using the toilet effect the environment too, but we still need food, shelter, clothing and the means to get it.
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Old 30-05-2022, 14:36   #23
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Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

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Originally Posted by Fortytwo View Post
Manufacturing, construction, transportation, agriculture and using the toilet effect the environment too, but we still need food, shelter, clothing and the means to get it.


So what exactly are you suggesting?
Should we simply say oh well that’s life or in this case sorry ya gotta die so I can get my fix of disposal items?
And yes we have messed stuff up but so what?
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Old 30-05-2022, 15:44   #24
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Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

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the root of the problem: Humans.

Clearly something needs to be done to eliminate this threat to our environment. Who's willing to do their part to reduce this invasive population? (No fair volunteering someone else!)
Awww.. I had a LONG list of politicians that I was going to volunteer!
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Old 30-05-2022, 18:07   #25
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Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

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Awww.. I had a LONG list of politicians that I was going to volunteer!
I'll grant an exception. Just to be fair, we can pick an equal number from each party. It would be nice to finally have something we can all agree on.

To be serious for a moment, I think we all try to do what we can to tread lightly on the Earth. But in the end our very existence is what's causing the "damage." We each need to pick our battles. If this is yours, great. But there are many other causes out there, equally important. Find one you can believe in, and try to do your part.
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Old 30-05-2022, 18:25   #26
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Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

This is an interesting study, and one all cruisers (who regularly anchor) should note. I don't think it's new information, although the attempt to quantify the damage may be new. But it's clear to anyone who anchors that damage is being done to by the practice.

It's important to keep this paper in context though. We're talking about massive anchor system from huge commercial vessels. While I know my anchor is doing the bottom no good, it's a leap to simply extrapolate this paper's findings to my actions.

All living critters extract a toll on their ecosystems. That's not an excuse for abusing the environment, but it is a fact. As some have already flippantly put it, the problem is living humans, so the only way to reach zero impact is to stop living.

The other thing to consider is the net effect anchoring of cruising-level boats have. Anchoring does damage the seabed, but marina development, or even the creation of mooring fields, extracts other environmental tolls. If we are serious about looking at this issue, then surely a holistic analysis is required.
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Old 30-05-2022, 18:47   #27
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Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Don't worry about it at all.

In the Earth's billion year history of life, humans are a tiny blip in that long timeline. At that scale, all of us will be extinct soon and in a million years or two, natural processes will repair all our damage and we will be long forgotten.

Earth abides.
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Old 30-05-2022, 19:02   #28
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Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

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I guess the anchors of the ships flagged in your country Bowdri don't cause any damage, just like your sh!t doesn't stink.
"Ships flagged in your country", Jeepers, the US Merchant Marine is hardly a pimple on a gnats ass in this age, I wonder if their are enough US flagged merchant ships to fill-up even one large port.
Hey, you could at least spell my name properly.
And when, (during this re-fit,) I get my new holding tank installed and hooked-up with the new high-tech, (expensive,) hoses, I'll not stink anymore.
My understanding was that TEL was originally introduced as a way to increase performance in aircraft engines to eliminate "knocking/detonation" at higher altitudes.
One of the persons in the study was noted as being a "lecturer".
Well, I don't know about you, but I'm tired of being "lectured to" by people who get paid to find problems, (or invent them,) that always end-up requiring me in some way-shape-or-form to shell-out more money to "solve problems" that never go away.
They can't go away, they're not allowed too, if they did the money spigot would be turned off.
Then too many people would have to find private sector work, and that means actually producing something that makes a profit for their employer.
There are far too many people running around with knitted brows, wringing their hands at all the "problems" they see that demand immediate attention or else we're all doomed.
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Old 30-05-2022, 19:35   #29
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Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

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Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
This is what:

"The anchor digs into the seabed and is moved around as the ship drifts on the surface, dragging the chain and causing ‘broomstick-like’ abrasions, killing off marine species and releasing carbon stores from the sediment. This has far-reaching implications for already stressed ecosystems and carbon cycling."
Seems to me Sailorboy1’s so what?” refers to ‘so what are you (or we) going to do about it?’ rather than just restating the likely environmental effects.

Restating problems is easy. Finding constructive and realistic solutions not so much.
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Old 30-05-2022, 21:24   #30
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Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Maybe the easiest solution is the one in straight in front of us - Mooring buoys. Permanent anchor points with a large mooring buoy attached. They do make them for larger commercial vessels. They can be seen in most harbours. Maybe to simple.

Can you imagine going into a harbour and port and there is a buoy waiting for you. Then someone will complain its visual pollution.

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