Cruisers Forum
 

Go Back   Cruisers & Sailing Forums > Engineering & Systems > Anchoring & Mooring
Cruiser Wiki Click Here to Login
Register Vendors FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Log in

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-05-2022, 21:31   #31
Registered User
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,891
Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Quote:
Originally Posted by grantmc View Post
I'm really surprised by the negative reactions and comments. I had always thought that cruisers took enjoyment from their environment and it was one of the reasons to go sailing. The study was based at Picton, a port in a very special place called the Marlborough Sounds. Picton is right at the top and we now know it was a very stupid place to locate a port.
Ah yes, Picton Harbour.


I wonder what all those little magenta anchors with crosses over them mean? They seem to cover just about the whole harbour.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Picton.jpg
Views:	73
Size:	48.2 KB
ID:	258684  
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2022, 01:20   #32
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,982
Images: 241
Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Quote:
Originally Posted by grantmc View Post
... And Chris wouldn't it have been a great service to humanity if before the extensive use of tetraethyl lead in petrol and then CFCs in cans that the warnings from the many serious studies that had been undertaken to ascertain that actually they were really really bad ideas for health, and perhaps shouldn't have been widely used. It was certainly well know in the 1920s that lead poisoning was no fun.

But TEL made money for Standard Oil, and GM. And Chris it took nearly a hundred years of 'waiting' and resulted in countless deaths

And by the way 'we' didn't discover the TEL additive for petrol nor chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs). That was all to the credit of Thomas Midgley, Jr. who will, I hope, forever hold the record for creating more damage than anyone else who has or ever will live...
According to historian John R, McNeill: Thomas J. Midgley* “had more impact on the atmosphere, than any other single organism, in Earth's history.” [1]

* Inventor of:
TetraEthyl Lead gasoline anti-knock additive [TEL]
Dichlorodifluoromethane CFC refridgerant [Freon-12]
Midgley's other accomplishments include: creating a process for extracting bromine from seawater, and developing natural and synthetic rubbers.

[1]“Something New Under the Sun: An Environmental History of the Twentieth-Century World” ~ by J. R. McNeill
Reviews:
a. ➥ https://www.researchgate.net/publica...y_World_review
b. ➥ https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nyti...neill-sun.html
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2022, 03:33   #33
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,982
Images: 241
Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

“Discharge, noise, light and concerns for marine life from anchored vessels” ~ Transport Canada

Due in part to the growth in Canada’s trade activities, some regions, particularly Southern British Columbia, have experienced an increase in use of anchorages for vessels in the last decade.
Through the Anchorages Initiative [1], under the Oceans Protection Plan [2], Transport Canada officials are examining ways to reduce anchorage use and transits by commercial vessels, while also advancing active traffic management solutions to mitigate socio-environmental impacts and improve traffic management.

More ➥ https://tc.canada.ca/en/marine-trans...chored-vessels

[1] Anchorages ➥ https://tc.canada.ca/sites/default/f...anchorages.pdf
https://tc.canada.ca/en/initiatives/...tion-plan#toc5

[2] Oceans Protection Plan ➥ https://tc.canada.ca/en/initiatives/...rotection-plan
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2022, 04:32   #34
CLOD
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: being planted in Jacksonville Fl
Boat: none
Posts: 20,587
Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaylorMade View Post
6.000 km2 is 0,0016 percent of the ocean area.

Stuff like this draws attention away from the real problems, of which there are plenty.
__________________
Don't ask a bunch of unknown forum people if it is OK to do something on YOUR boat. It is your boat, do what you want!
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2022, 04:35   #35
CLOD
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: being planted in Jacksonville Fl
Boat: none
Posts: 20,587
Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Quote:
Originally Posted by robinco View Post
Seems to me Sailorboy1’s so what?” refers to ‘so what are you (or we) going to do about it?’ rather than just restating the likely environmental effects.
No, it was referring to getting all uptight over a very very very very small area of the seabed
__________________
Don't ask a bunch of unknown forum people if it is OK to do something on YOUR boat. It is your boat, do what you want!
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2022, 04:56   #36
Senior Cruiser
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 30,822
Images: 2
pirate Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

This is old news in many ways.. in Salcombe they banned anchoring in 90% of the area and installed screw in moorings for sail and power boats a couple of decades back.
Its an area of natural beauty and anchoring was causing to much damage, along with traditional moorings.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SALCOMBE_FINEST_190819_019.jpg
Views:	60
Size:	420.8 KB
ID:	258689   Click image for larger version

Name:	Salcombe-Harbour-detail.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	162.2 KB
ID:	258690  

__________________

You can't beat a people up for 75 years and have them say.. "I Love You.. ".
"It is better to die standing proud, than to live a lifetime on ones knees.."

The Politician Never Bites the Hand that Feeds him the 30 piece's of Silver..
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2022, 05:03   #37
Registered User
 
CaptTom's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southern Maine
Boat: Prairie 36 Coastal Cruiser
Posts: 3,232
Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
[SIZE=3]“had more impact on the atmosphere, than any other single organism, in Earth's history.”
That's a bit of a stretch. Clearly cyanobacteria, which are believed to have caused the Great Oxidation Event, would hold the top spot if you didn't narrow it down to a single organism.

Even so, the impact of both leaded gasoline and Freon were nothing but an insignificant blip in geologic time. The effects of these are trivial compared to all the other atmospheric changes just in my own lifetime.

I bring this up not only to be pedantic, but to illustrate how easy it is to inflate issues which, while legitimate, pale in comparison to larger and more pressing problems.
CaptTom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2022, 05:10   #38
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,982
Images: 241
Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptTom View Post
That's a bit of a stretch. Clearly cyanobacteria, which are believed to have caused the Great Oxidation Event, would hold the top spot if you didn't narrow it down to a single organism...
Maybe so, but:
Mcneil identified one particular human organism [Midgley].
Which particular single-celled cyanobacterium organism, can you identify?
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2022, 05:11   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2022
Posts: 195
Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

When believing or citing any study, your first duty is to learn and understand who funded that study.

Once you know the agenda behind the study, only then is it possible to to trust it.

Most employees work to please their master.
Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2022, 06:18   #40
Registered User
 
Winf's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Western Australia
Boat: Southcoast 36
Posts: 176
Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatest Lakes View Post

They are not complaining about cruisers. Yet. For a change.
Time will tell. This is exactly how it starts.

This is how it came about that in more and more marine areas of this country I can't throw a line in and legally catch, clean and eat a fish for our dinner.

Someone writes a paper, paper gets supported by someone with a political/ideological agenda, they get a political ear that needs support from a marginal group to get into or remain in power and bada bing, how fast can you say Green Zone so no fishing here you environmental vandal.

For the record, we (and I suspect most cruisers and commercial vessels) don't anchor on reefs, rocks, weed banks or other charismatic ecosystems. Mainly because of the poor holding. I am also quite aware that good holding, plain jane, sandy or mud buttons are also ecosystems with their own unique characteristics and flora/fauna.

It's about scale, as other posters have correctly pointed out.

Don't understand irony? So be it. Am sick and tired of more and more simple freedoms, taken for granted less than one or two generations ago, are now stripped away with barely a whimper and almost no application of common sense. Those freedoms are gone folks. And are never coming back.
Winf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2022, 06:49   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Hunnter Legend 37.5
Posts: 1,012
Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

I've been sailing the BVI's for years. Each time I went back to dead man's bay and eustachia sound and snorkel it is clear to see the damage on the sea floor from anchoring. I would watch the anchor chain scrub the bottom clean in its path. No doubt we impact our personal micro environment, as we do with bottom paint, dish detergent from the galley sink, shampoo from the head, and on and on. But..... Of all the things humans do, pleasure craft anchoring must be the smallest contributor overall.
bensolomon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2022, 07:00   #42
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,982
Images: 241
Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winf View Post
Time will tell. This is exactly how it starts...
Right.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2022, 07:04   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: SE USA
Boat: Hunter 38
Posts: 1,469
Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptTom View Post
I see a lot of these "unseen impact" articles. And I think it's very true that we (humans) have an impact on the environment with everything we do.

Taken together, these reports of ecological damage lead me to an inevitable conclusion as to the root of the problem: Humans.

Clearly something needs to be done to eliminate this threat to our environment. Who's willing to do their part to reduce this invasive population? (No fair volunteering someone else!)
Well I am, I'm not breeding. We have way too many people on this planet already. We collectively as a species are way past the point at which we should be talking about mandatory global birth control.
flightlead404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2022, 07:06   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: SE USA
Boat: Hunter 38
Posts: 1,469
Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenWave View Post
Sure anchors of all sorts put holes in the sea floor and stir up sediment. However, way too soon in this research to truly state that is a problem that will cause more problems. And is this stirring worse than storms and their effects? Is it different in a bad way?

Surely we have something else to study. Sad that someone is actually sponsoring this research.
The other question that immediately comes to mind is the relationship between tonnage and damage. Is it linear for example? Do 1000 10 tonne vessels cause more or less damage for longer or shorter periods of time than one 10,000 tonne vessel?
flightlead404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2022, 07:08   #45
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: SE USA
Boat: Hunter 38
Posts: 1,469
Re: Anchors Cause “extensive, persistent” Damage to Seafloor

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisOwens View Post
When we discovered that leaded motor fuel was poisoning us, the alternative wasn't to stop driving, it was to develop improved fuels and engine technology. And it was a huge success: lead levels are way down.


When we discovered that CFC refrigerants and propellants were trashing the ozone layer, we didn't stop having air conditioners or products in aerosol containers; we developed superior alternatives. And the result was a reversal of the environmental damage that was nothing short of spectacular: one of the true success stories for environmental protection

Its also interesting to compare statistics on violent crime with lead in the atmosphere skewed 20 years. Lead is known to cause behavioral issues along with the concomitant drop in IQ.
flightlead404 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Myth of alternator damage cause by BMS disconnect? tanglewood Lithium Power Systems 283 04-02-2024 16:00
Ouch: Barges cause million dollar damage Macblaze Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 0 28-12-2018 08:41
Can the use of a Sextant cause eye damage? Time Theory Navigation 62 07-10-2018 12:05
For Sale: Anchors , Anchors and More Anchors MermaidLil Classifieds Archive 11 19-01-2012 09:28

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:20.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.