anchors, ground tackle, windlasses, oh my

[cwyckham]

You are absolutely on the right track. I would consider a Mantus or Manson Supreme instead of a Rocna, but that's my personal bias due to the fact that they refuse to publish the strength of material they now use in the shanks.

You don't want two anchors on the bow. Too much weight and things to tangle up.

I agree with HopCar that your back-up/kedge should be an oversized fortress, but I would keep it fully assembled on the aft rail or in chocks on the cabin-top so it's ready to go if you need it in a hurry. I have a short chain leader and 100' or rope rode in the bow ready for the second anchor, but having it in a bag would work just as well.

[Cheechako]

Another vote for the oversized Fortress as a backup anchor. I kept mine aft of the bow ready to deploy on a bracket I made attached to the lifeline stanchion. (except on blue water crossings)
One morning micro burst winds hit at 70+ MPH suddenly at daybreak. The Fortress saved my boat almost on the beach.
I simply threw it and the 25 feet of chain overboard standing naked on the bow. (all the time I had) Snubbed up tight and saved the boat (47 ft)

[DefinitelyMe]

For the most informative source on anchors and anchoring i have ever come across, definitely look at this thread:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ng-126073.html

It would take days to read every post, but the information there is invaluable and well worth an hour or two of your time.

I have a rocna 25 (one size up from the one you are considering) on my 36-foot boat (18,000lbs) and i love it, but it is over-sized as i wanted something that will hold me in some little sand hole in the middle of nowhere in 60-knots plus of breeze. I think a Rocna 44 would be perfect for a Tartan 37 for general cruising. Consider Manson Supreme and Mantus also.

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Another vote for the oversized Fortress as a backup anchor. I kept mine aft of the bow ready to deploy on a bracket I made attached to the lifeline stanchion. (except on blue water crossings)
One morning micro burst winds hit at 70+ MPH suddenly at daybreak. The Fortress saved my boat almost on the beach.
I simply threw it and the 25 feet of chain overboard standing naked on the bow. (all the time I had) Snubbed up tight and saved the boat (47 ft)

Yikes! Under the circumstances, I would have been "snubbed up tight" as well. Especially if it was a cold night.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by cwyckham

Yikes! Under the circumstances, I would have been "snubbed up tight" as well. Especially if it was a cold night.

Fortunately it was Florida! Circa '98. the same day a couple 18 wheelers were toppled over on the freeway. The main hook had been down for over a week and well dug in. I awoke to the wind veering the boat. By the time I got up and got outside, instant white caps were forming. I turned on the instruments and by the time I was back at the helm I had to start the motor. minutes later the motor was full ahead and we were barely holding on,. Wife handed me the ski-ing goggles as the rain was so hard I couldn't open my eyes. The anemometer was pegged at 70. A moment later a huge gust broke the main anchor free. Suddenly we were near the beach and boats everywhere in the anchorage were breaking free.
Thankyou Fortress! and thank goodness it wasn't stored below as a "storm anchor".

[tinkrman69]

I've had 18 boats drag into me in the past 5 years. every one of them had a bruce or CQR most had all chain rode. I've never drug with a danforth, rocna, fisherman or spade. This boat had a 35 CQR and 20kg bruce I got rid of the CQR the first day and used there bruce as a second anchor Got rid of it after the first 30 knot gust. I have 200 ft 5/16 and 40 ft of 3/8 on 180 ft of 5/8 line never anchor with lass than 10:1 scope usually 13:1 I keep two anchors ready on the bow and redistribute the liveabord stuff below to keep trim.most of the time when I "need" another anchor, I need it now not 30 minutes from now.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I awoke to the wind veering the boat. By the time I got up and got outside, instant white caps were forming. I turned on the instruments and by the time I was back at the helm I had to start the motor. minutes later the motor was full ahead and we were barely holding on,. Wife handed me the ski-ing goggles as the rain was so hard I couldn't open my eyes. The anemometer was pegged at 70. A moment later a huge gust broke the main anchor free. Suddenly we were near the beach and boats everywhere in the anchorage were breaking free.
Thankyou Fortress! and thank goodness it wasn't stored below as a "storm anchor".

Another good argument for a second anchor on the bow.

We carry our Fortress stowed, but that's really only because I haven't figured our an elegant way to mount a second anchor forward.

So our primary is also (mostly) our "storm" anchor, too.

-Chris

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by StuartSailor

I'm also interested in windlass experience. I'm pretty well sold on a vertical unit and have seen many Lewmar and Maxwell options. Haven't checked out the Lofrans units yet.

Perhaps it's little more than a personal preference, but mine is for a horizontal windlass, instead. It will have a larger footprint and higher profile than most vertical styles, but I think they have a bit more utility...

If equipped with a rope capstan, a horizontal will be much easier to tail than a vertical, which will usually involved getting down on your knees...

In my experience, chain tends to fall thru the hawse pipe a bit better from a horizontal gypsy. It's often highly dependent on the particular installation, but I've had some hang-ups or jams with vertical styles... In the event you ever wind up having to pull up your chain rode by hand, you'll need an assistant to feed the chain thru the deck with most vertical arrangements, it's far easier to drop the chain into the pipe with a horizontal style. And with the chain disconnected from the anchor when on a passage, most hawse pipes with a horizontal style are a bit easier to cap and seal completely than those with a vertical windlass...

But perhaps the biggest advantage, might come in the event of a power/motor failure, where you have to resort to manual operation... Getting down on your knees, and grinding away with a winch handle on a low-profile vertical windlass will get old VERY quickly (and I pity anyone who might have to do that with the sort of installation that's becoming so commonplace on today's boats, with the windlass being placed below deck level in a recessed anchor locker, where it's unlikely you'll even be able to swing a 10" winch handle full circle :-)), using the longer lever to manually crank on a horizontal windlass from a standing position is a far more comfortable and effective way to go... There's a reason most manual windlasses have always been a horizontal style... ;-)

Whatever you decide, I'd suggest making a nice cover for protection from the elements, it will pay dividends over the long haul... And I'd avoid a painted or powder/coated finish, stick with anodized or stainless/chromed...

Finally, don't believe it's been mentioned yet, but I'd say to avoid deck-mounted foot switches like the plague, they're probably one of the most failure-prone items one can possibly put on a boat ;-) A corded handheld remote that plugs in inside the boat and can be fed out on deck thru a port or hatch can be a good way to go...

FWIW, I'm using a Lofrans Kobra on my 30- footer displacing around 15K... It's been absolutely flawless, going on about 10 years now... My only gripe - and it's one that's common to virtually every windlass motor I've ever seen - is why the hell do they position those studs for the cables so close together, knowing heavy cables will be run to them, typically in a rather confined space?

;-)

[kerrydeare]

Originally Posted by tinkrman69

... never anchor with lass than 10:1 scope usually 13:1 ...

How do you manage to always find harbors that allow this much room? Here on the Right Coast it's seldom possible (at least in the areas from Newfoundland to Trinidad that I am familiar with).

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by kerrydeare

How do you manage to always find harbors that allow this much room? Here on the Right Coast it's seldom possible (at least in the areas from Newfoundland to Trinidad that I am familiar with).

Ahhh, perhaps that's how he's managed to have 18 boats drag into him over the past 5 years...

;-)

[tinkrman69]

Those harbors are all over the place. When its tight put two anchors out to shorten the radius of your swing.

I was in George town Bahamas a few years back. it seems that every one there thought one anchor for a long stay...weeks or more...was a good practice. altho it's not bad holding the bottom is thin so I anchored near the edge and put two anchors out to the two. the next day the wind pcked up to 25+ out of the ESE for the next week. I'm in no hurry I'll hangout, I was head to luperon. well two nights into this i hear a banging at my bow. I get out and there is a dinghy bouncing against my bow. it was attached to a beni around 40 ft. I got on the radio and tried to hail them...to no avail...then used up all the air in my horn,,,I have a refillable one now....and still no response. they were still coming closer, luckily my anchors were out port and starboard in that wind. they were now close enough to me that I stepped off my bow onto their stern and was able to wake them in their aft cabin. He proceeded to tell me that he didn't drag and rather than argue with him I agreed that I had dragged forward but the only way to remedy the situation was to move his boat as my anchors were under his boat. His electric windless couldn't pull the anchor and he didn't have manual handle so I went foreword and pulled by hand as he motored forward. he had all chain out...about 60 ft that was twisted some what. as we got the anchor up it was a 20kg bruce and no swivel on the chain. When we reanchored down wind of me it took me quite a bit to get him to put out more than 60 foot of rode in ten ft of water. it wasn't till I told him to factor in the hight of his bow to th depth that he put out an extra 20 ft.

one other boat from canada drug along side me, about ten feet betwixt out beams. They called in and managed to get one of the moorings. they were friendly and apologetic. a day or so later I heard someone yelling "we're hooked on your anchor" I jump put on deck and it's the same Canadian boat. It turns out that the mooring broke at the ground and dragging part of it's anchor it hooked on my rode. they spun around some how and their davits got hooked in my solar bridge..breaking on of the cross members. we got it straightened out and sistered up for a while. we got the mooring untangles and out of the water and readied an anchor to deploy. they were having trouble getting the engine started, but got it started. They offered to have a local repair my bridge and I thanked them and said I was going to be changing it any way...not to worry.

I have respect for those Canadians, as they took full blame even tho the mooring wasn't their fault. There have only been a few that took responsibility for their mistakes. And I kind of think it's a class thing with the others as My boat is not shinny and new with all the frills, so I must be at fault. I've been told more than once that I had drug up under them.

I've heard many say "it's too much trouble to put out two anchors" others "no need that what insurance is for" a sad mentality. it used to be that no one turned away from a boater in need. Now i see and hear of it more and more. Whats going on in this world?

[tinkrman69]

Originally Posted by kerrydeare

How do you manage to always find harbors that allow this much room? Here on the Right Coast it's seldom possible (at least in the areas from Newfoundland to Trinidad that I am familiar with).

no one as come up on me in a while now. But when I pull into an anchorage now I look for all the shinny new boats and go to the other end of the harbor. It seems that the seedier side has a little more boat sense.

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by tinkrman69

Those harbors are all over the place. When its tight put two anchors out to shorten the radius of your swing.

I was in George town Bahamas a few years back. it seems that every one there thought one anchor for a long stay...weeks or more...was a good practice...

Ahhh, well, lying to 2 anchors amidst the crowd in a place like Elizabeth Harbor can be asking for trouble... One of those places where the adage "When in Rome..." typically applies...

;-)

What do you see as the advantage of laying out such an excessive amount of scope, however? Virtually everyone who has made any serious study of the physics of scope, and catenary, seems to agree that there is essentially no added benefit in routinely lying to anything beyond about 8:1...

Catenary & Scope In Anchor Rode: Anchor Systems For Small Boats

And, if you gain comfort from just having a bunch of additional weight from all that excess chain lying on the bottom, why not simply go with a larger anchor, instead?

[BobH260]

Jon, I agree, a bigger anchor trumps more chain. There is a good anchor scope demo here, Anchor Scope Illustrated Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com

I think the OP wanted advice for FL east coast and Bahamas, so anchorages will be quite shallow in almost all cases.

Bob

[tinkrman69]

Originally Posted by Jon Eisberg

Ahhh, well, lying to 2 anchors amidst the crowd in a place like Elizabeth Harbor can be asking for trouble... One of those places where the adage "When in Rome..." typically applies...

;-)

What do you see as the advantage of laying out such an excessive amount of scope, however? Virtually everyone who has made any serious study of the physics of scope, and catenary, seems to agree that there is essentially no added benefit in routinely lying to anything beyond about 8:1...

Catenary & Scope In Anchor Rode: Anchor Systems For Small Boats

And, if you gain comfort from just having a bunch of additional weight from all that excess chain lying on the bottom, why not simply go with a larger anchor, instead?

you'll notice that the bottom used in all the test on various anchors the anchor is able to burry deep into the bottom. and when the seas get going rising the bow and jerking on the rode, being buried deep with room to go further it take quite a bit of lift to dislodge the anchor. but if the bottom is scoured as is in the bahamas and many throughout the Carribean the bottom is only 6 to 12 inches deep before hitting hard pan coral bottom...which is fairly smooth with small holes at random. with the extra scope the shank will be pulled more into the bottom rather than along the bottom.I have seen many people drag with 7 or 8:1 But I have never seen anyone drag due to too much scope.

as to two anchors most anchors were designed to stay set as long as the pull is between 45 and 60 degrees of the initial set. if you anchor for more than a few days or are tucking in some where to get out of coming t storms you are going to spin 360. making the anchor unset and reset and in some cases wrap the chain around the shank. if it pulls up a hunk of marl with it, it might reset in 50 ft or so. No I'd rather do the labor, rather than take the wellbeing of someone else's home in my hands We all make a wake no mater what some just plow through life not caring some just get screwed, some get shunned and pushed aside. Think Karma