anchors, ground tackle, windlasses, oh my

[onestepcsy37]

If you confine your sailing/cruising to Florida/Bahamas you ought to get about a 45lb new gen anchor (rocna, manson, spade, etc) and no more than 150 feet of all chain rode.

I've been using that combination for four years now and have never had a single problem - 37 foot cutter weighing 20,000lb. Anchoring in this area is never in more than 20 feet of water and usually in 10 feet or less, so long chains are unnecessary. I have 140 feet but have never even had to put out 100. And that's with my standard 7 to 1 chain to depth ratio.

You can mark your chain with colored zip ties in a color scheme that is incredibly easy to remember - Red, White, and Blue. A dozen red zip ties at 25 feet, a dozen white at 50 feet, a dozen blue at 75 feet, and a dozen red/white/blue at 100 feet. Then repeat.

Hope this helps.

[StuartSailor]

Thank you all for your great feedback. There were some great suggestions so I've taken notes.

I am leaning towards the Maxwell RC8 vertical windlass without the drum and 125' 5/16 " chain braided to my 250' of nylon rope. Of course now this begs the chain question. I went to Sailorman in Ft Lauderdale and see they sell a 5/16 HT from China for $2.95/ft. I will probably not go for this. They also sell Maggi chain from Italy for $$3.30/ft. I've never heard of this brand. As I look thru West Marine's catalog I realize I'm not sure which chain I should be considering. Your kind suggestions are most appreciated. About how much per foot should I expect to pay?

Also, while I am fairly settled on the Rocna 44 lb for my 15,500 lb 37' boat, I am starting to think about the Rocna 55. I want to oversize but is this overkill? I am replacing my 35lb CQR.

Thanks again for all the great feedback.

Jesse

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by tinkrman69

well I've never encroached on anyone. those that have drug up on were people who came in after I was already there. I've learned the marine life from a few generations. and the've always taught that it was safest and most considerate of others to put out two anchors. for one you take up less space and two you are less likely to drag into anyone. Now putting out two anchors I can set what ever scope the anchorage requires and still keep the radius of my swing smaller than the sazy man who only puts out one and takes up more space.

Well, I'm still a bit mystified how one gets away with laying out a pair of rodes at 10:1 or more in a spot like No Name Harbor... All I can say is, you must have that Hands on Hips Foredeck Stance, and Blue Steel Glare towards anyone coming within shouting distance down cold...

;-)

Unlike you, I've yet to lay at anchor in one harbor for anything approaching 2 months at a time, seems we might be getting more into the realm of mooring in such cases, rather than the sort of anchoring many cruisers are typically doing... Like you, I prefer to avoid crowds as well, but for a cruiser on the move, there simply may be times when that cannot be avoided...

I've always thought Great Salt Pond on Block Island was a prime example of an anchorage where the "When in Rome..." approach can sometimes be your only prudent option...





The depths throughout much of that anchorage are in the 25' range... Anyone who's gonna lay out a couple of 300' rodes in opposing directions in a place like that, is asking for trouble, bigtime...

On a busy summer weekend, if several of your neighbors haven't fouled/hooked your rode(s) by cocktail hour, they certainly will have when that thunderstorm rolls through in the middle of one of those sultry summer nights, and everyone starts dragging... ;-)

So, a good rule of thumb when it comes to anchoring amidst others might be, "Never Say Never"... Sometimes, you might just have to bite the bullet, and 'Go Along, to Get Along..."
;-)

Originally Posted by tinkrman69

now as to your quote above you have mis quoted me. I did not say that I "never" have to put out less than 10:1. as a mater of fact the only time I typed 10:1 was here and in one other post where I talked published papers on anchors and scope. where they said 7 or 8:1 and in some 10:1.

So, I think the problem is that you have a closed mind and can't read a whole post before making judgments I think there would be no argument at all if you opened your mind and read from start to Finnish before you made a judgment. Heck you might even learn something.

there is a guy...Spencer I think his last name. He said something like this " there is nothing that will keep a man in everlasting ignorance, more than Contempt prior to investigation"

Well, glad to see skipmac has already clarified my alleged "misquote", that's saved me a bit of typing... ;-)

I was beginning to wonder, thinking that "always" was the appropriate antonym for "never"... Ahh, well, looks like I may not have to repeat grade school, after all...

At least, for the time being, anyway...

;-)

No worries, mate... Happy Anchoring ;-)

[onestepcsy37]

Jesse, rocna 44 should be fine, but get the 55 if it makes you feel safer. Just remember you may have to pick it up by hand one day. For florida/bahamas the 125ft of chain might be enough, with maybe 10 or 15 feet of nylon backing it in case you have to cut your anchor loose one day. I have heard that maggi chain is very good.

Like Jon Eisberg, who has extensive cruising and liveaboard experience, I much prefer a horizontal windlass because it can easily be used manually when your battery or motor dies.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

Jesse, rocna 44 should be fine, but get the 55 if it makes you feel safer. Just remember you may have to pick it up by hand one day. For florida/bahamas the 125ft of chain might be enough, with maybe 10 or 15 feet of nylon backing it in case you have to cut your anchor loose one day. I have heard that maggi chain is very good.

Like Jon Eisberg, who has extensive cruising and liveaboard experience, I much prefer a horizontal windlass because it can easily be used manually when your battery or motor dies.

So I need some schooling. The only electrical windlass I've tried using manually was a 1:1 situation. ie: you inserted a bar, when you turned the drum about 1/3 of a full rotation, you got ~1-1.5 links of chain retrieved.
Are there electric windlasses that do this better manually?
With chain at about 10 links per foot, if you had 100 ft out that would be 800-1000 cycles to retrieve.

[StuartSailor]

Cheechako, I am very interested to see onestepcsy37's response because I do have some friends recommending a manual windlass but the majority tell me to go electric. I keep going back and forth but I don't really like the concept of wake up and give the windlass 10 cranks. Make coffee and give it 10 more cranks. Have breakfast then give it 10 more cranks etc. So if the manual windlass is more efficient than that, I could be persuaded, however the low profile electric windlass without the drum looks so nice and functional.

Jesse

[Lepke]

To add one more reply to too many, the rule of thumb in anchoring is a rode of 7:1 for rope/cable and 4:1 for all chain. All chain tends to keep your shank parallel with the bottom so your anchor stays anchored better. I seldom anchor in less than 10 fathoms, so carry lots of chain. Weight isn't an issue.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by StuartSailor

Cheechako, I am very interested to see onestepcsy37's response because I do have some friends recommending a manual windlass but the majority tell me to go electric. I keep going back and forth but I don't really like the concept of wake up and give the windlass 10 cranks. Make coffee and give it 10 more cranks. Have breakfast then give it 10 more cranks etc. So if the manual windlass is more efficient than that, I could be persuaded, however the low profile electric windlass without the drum looks so nice and functional.

Jesse

One reason I need schooling on whether an electric can retrieve manually more than a link or two at a time is because the windlasses I've had have been very reliable. Some were new, some were old they just kept on working. Guess I've been lucky.
Since I wrote that post I've wondered: if you had a failed electric, would a vertical actually be better ? Although you have to get on your knees, can you just rotate a handle instead of having to reload the handle 100's of times?
Either way, my feeling is probably just handing in the rode is easiest, unless you want to screw around a lot! :>)

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

One reason I need schooling on whether an electric can retrieve manually more than a link or two at a time is because the windlasses I've had have been very reliable. Some were new, some were old they just kept on working. Guess I've been lucky.
Since I wrote that post I've wondered: if you had a failed electric, would a vertical actually be better ? Although you have to get on your knees, can you just rotate a handle instead of having to reload the handle 100's of times?
Either way, my feeling is probably just handing in the rode is easiest, unless you want to screw around a lot! :>)

I've seen but never used an actual manual windlass. It had a place to put the handle for a 1:3 gearing for fast raising and one for 1:1 when you need the grunt. The handle doesn't get "reloaded" it stays in.

I have a horizontal axis electric windlass (Muir Cougar). It's been very reliable, but has a place where I can put a handle. Again, the handle doesn't need to be reloaded. I think this would actually be really helpful in some circumstances.

In all but the deepest of waters, I can hand-bomb the chain, but I'm relatively young and strong. Once we come up tight, though, and are working the anchor out of the bottom, I think the leverage would be helpful. I prefer to work it slowly out instead of just ripping it out by motoring over it.

That said, the couple times I've chosen to hand-bomb the anchor out, it's hard to get the chain down the hawse hole, so I'll often stack it and then feed it down the hole later. I can't do that if I'm going to then change to using the windlass.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by cwyckham

I've seen but never used an actual manual windlass. It had a place to put the handle for a 1:3 gearing for fast raising and one for 1:1 when you need the grunt. The handle doesn't get "reloaded" it stays in.

I have a horizontal axis electric windlass (Muir Cougar). It's been very reliable, but has a place where I can put a handle. Again, the handle doesn't need to be reloaded. I think this would actually be really helpful in some circumstances.

In all but the deepest of waters, I can hand-bomb the chain, but I'm relatively young and strong. Once we come up tight, though, and are working the anchor out of the bottom, I think the leverage would be helpful. I prefer to work it slowly out instead of just ripping it out by motoring over it.

That said, the couple times I've chosen to hand-bomb the anchor out, it's hard to get the chain down the hawse hole, so I'll often stack it and then feed it down the hole later. I can't do that if I'm going to then change to using the windlass.

Reread my words, the question is trying to use a broken electric manually: "if you had a failed electric, would a vertical actually be better ? Although you have to get on your knees, can you just rotate a handle instead of having to reload the handle 100's of times?"

[onestepcsy37]

I think I had better come clean and tell you all that I have a MANUAL windlass. It's an old AB that is no longer available but similar to the old Simpson Lawrence Sea Tiger. The boat is 37 ft, 20000 lb, cutaway full keel cutter. I have 140 ft of 3/8" BBB chain with a Manson Supreme 45 lb anchor. Been using that combination for about four years now and consider it the best anchoring setup I have ever had. And having been anchoring for more than 30 years I've had many combinations.

We anchor in "shallow" water - never more than 20 ft, usually 10 ft. So if I have to raise the anchor hand over hand (no windlass) I'm only picking up maybe 15 ft of chain, about 30 lbs. Even an old guy like me can manage that. It's only when you get to the anchor and have to lift that hand over hand that my load increases to maybe 60 lbs. I can handle that but sometimes I just feel like using the manual windlass so I crank up the last bit with that.

With the admiral at the helm, easing the boat forward and letting it go slack (hand commands, NO shouting!) it's really an easy job. If I had to do it solo it might become more of a chore and I might eventually go electric. But i'm a keep it simple kind of guy and manual is simple. OTOH, if I do go electric it will definitely be a horizontal style. Even at a slow retrieval rate it's easier to stand on your feet and crank then sit on the deck and rotate a winch handle, IMHO.

Another thing I might mention. I do not use the windlass to "pull" the anchor out. Don't think I would do that with an electric windlass either. The windlass is only used to bring in the chain and anchor. Move the boat forward towards the anchor and pick up the slack. I think the old timers used to say "let the cat do it" - referring to the catenary.

And listen to Jon Eisberg. He's been cruising and living aboard a long time and speaks from real life experience....

[Matt Johnson]

There are a lot of anchorages where short scope is necessary.... sometimes it's other boats, but other times it's rocks, coral or a sand bar. Last time in Bimini, it was the casino's float plane runway. You can roadstead by yourself and roll all night, or tuck in where it's comfy and safe. Added weight in the anchor sure makes these situations less stressful.

Also, the only people that regularly put out two anchors are the ones staying for months and act like a mooring. You'll see this done rarely now that the cruising world has moved past the CQR.

Matt

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Since I wrote that post I've wondered: if you had a failed electric, would a vertical actually be better ? Although you have to get on your knees, can you just rotate a handle instead of having to reload the handle 100's of times?

Our electric is a vertical Maxwell RC 10-10, and yes, I can just use the rotating hand crank if necessary. Not much strain at all (given the boat is being moved on its own power toward the anchor), the rode drops nicely into the locker, etc.

Not sure whether I could lift our anchor off the seabed with the crank; think I could, but at least bringing in the last few feet manually, and then cranking the remaining rode into the locker would work.

I know I can't crank our anchor onto the roller, though. I'm not strong enough (maybe) but in any case it just won't make the 90° bend... so I have to do the last 3' by hand anyway.

FWIW, our windlass is installed on a hatch-covered "shelf" above the rope locker, so in our particular case, being able to rotate it with the crank is dependent on an extension bit... which Maxwell sells. If it weren't for the recessed installation, the extension bit wouldn't be necessary. Works well enough, though.

-Chris

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by onestepcsy37

And listen to Jon Eisberg. He's been cruising and living aboard a long time and speaks from real life experience....

Well, thank you for the kind words, but I'm afraid that is grossly overstated... ;-)

While I may have a bit of 'real life experience', pretty much all of my "liveaboard" time has only come in comparatively brief 'spurts', I think about 4 months at a single stretch has been my longest, so far... The only thing I might bring to the table, is that I've seen a fair amount of differing ways people do things on their boats, and many of those being less than ideal...

;-)

As mentioned earlier, the choice between horizontal and vertical is more of a personal preference, than anything... Good arguments for either, really, I just find the horizontal to be better for me...

Cheechako mentioned the more complete wrap around the gypsy on verticals, that's a good point... I've yet to have an issue with my chain jumping off my horizontal gypsy, but I have seen it happen on other boats where the gypsy might have become a bit worn, or the chain and gypsy might not be perfectly matched...

For those going without a rope capstan, the much lower profile of a vertical can be an advantage on a smaller foredeck... And, one benefit of a vertical capstan as opposed to a horizontal, might be in a situation where you are trying to kedge off, with the kedge anchor led off the bow at an angle... Trying to use a horizontal drum for that purpose, you're gonna have to use a snatch block or configure some way of leading the rode to the drum from the centerline... That can get tricky, when you're loading it up heavily...

In the end, neither choice will be 'wrong', both styles can do their job pretty well...

[onestepcsy37]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

I know I can't crank our anchor onto the roller, though. I'm not strong enough (maybe) but in any case it just won't make the 90° bend... so I have to do the last 3' by hand anyway.

Same here. Nearly always have to grab the shank and pull it over the roller.