anchors, ground tackle, windlasses, oh my

[StuartSailor]

Hello to all. New member of this site and anxious to find the kind of support I've read about for others. I suspect most of my questions will be similar to others so I will read some of the other threads for additional information that may help my situation.

I am in the process of upgrading my ground tackle and anchor which I know can get the eyes rolling at this old topic as well as generate a lot of discussion. My wife and I hosted a party for our local sailing club at our house last weekend and I asked 10 cruisers the same question. I received 10 different answers and they were all correct, for their boats at least.

I'm excited to see what you all can recommend. I have a Tartan 37 weighing 15,500 pounds with a 35 lb CQR on 30 feet of 3/8 chain with 200 feet of 5/8 nylon rode. I am considering moving to the 44 lb Rockna with 150 feet of 5/16 HT chain and braiding(?) the 200 feet of 5/8. I was also considering 100-125 feet of 3/8 chain but am concerned that might be too much weight. My question is more about the weight in the bow. I'm interested in what other owners with similar size/weight boat use for their ground tackle than what anchor you're using. I realize my racing performance will suffer somewhat but I'm more concerned about cruising weight than racing weight. What about having 2 anchors on the bow? One using the existing hawse hole and the other using a windlass with all rode in the divided anchor locker. Most of my anchoring however, will be in shallow Florida east coast, keys, bahamas, caribbean hopefully one day.

I'm also interested in windlass experience. I'm pretty well sold on a vertical unit and have seen many Lewmar and Maxwell options. Haven't checked out the Lofrans units yet. Velara on another page where I posted this question had a great suggestion to add a wash down pump so any details on size etc. also appreciated.

Thank you so much and again, very glad to be part of this great community.

Jesse
s/v Sailsman

[laika]

I just went through this and asked a very similar question regarding my boat (10000lb): http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ng-149945.html

Others with more experience will hopefully chime in. I'd just add that I have 100ft of chain in the forepeak/anchor locker and another 100 amidships under the cabin sole. Seems like a good compromise to keep the weight down at the bow and also have some reserve.

Otherwise, best advise I can give is to check out the anchor system sizing tables here Ground Tackle & Anchor System Sizing TABLES & Swivels . Take into account how liberal or conservative you want to take things and then size your anchor system from the shackle to the windlass according to uniform WLLs.

All the best

[Yeti]

I've got similar size boat so I'll throw out what my plan is. My Cascade 36 has a published displacement of 13500lbs. I' assuming that in its current state that it's around 15000+lbs.

My current setup is what was on the boat when I bought it and it has worked for me with no issues. There's 50' of 3/8 chain with no marking so I assume BBB/G30 rating and 180' of 5/8 double braid. The main anchor at the time of purchase was a 15kg SL Claw (Bruce clone). There was a smaller Danforth and a homemade fisherman's anchor on the boat as well. I never used either one of those. I added a 20kg CQR to the mix but haven't used that either.

I'm currently working to upgrade ground tackle. To that effect I have a 15kg Rocna and plan to make that the main anchor. I plan to add at least 100' of 5/16 G4 chain and at least 200' of 5/8 8 strand plaited line.
When that chain and line combo comes aboard the old chain and rode will go to the stern for the occasional two anchor need.

My windlass is a manual lofrans that is currently not working. So If I can't pull it up I have a chain hook and/or prussic loop ready with a line to go back to the main winches. I probably will eventually get the windlass repaired or replaced but I'm not too worried about it at this time. I'm a "big ol' boy" and so far I can hand retrieve the current setup from 40'+ depth if its not stuck on a rock or something like that. Its definitely not easy but its doable.

[StuartSailor]

Thank you Laika and Yeti. Your feedback is most appreciated. It's very interesting to hear what others have used successfully. I'm starting to feel like I'm on the right track.

Jesse

[skipmac]

I think the 4 lb Rocna would be adequate for your boat but I wouldn't go any smaller.

Also the 5/16 HT chain should be fine. I'm considering the same chain for my 42' Pearson so should certainly be enough for a 37' Tartan.


By the way. Have you considered a Mantus anchor. I have a Rocna and a Mantus and I do like the Mantus.

[fishead]

If you're going to have a 150 of 5/16 HT chain I'd add another 50 feet of chain and skip the line. 200 ft of chain will cover you for the bahamas and florida and you'll have an all chain rode. If you put a 2nd anchor on the bow you are going to end up with a lot of weight in the bow which will make your boat hobby horse or pitch in head seas. You could set up a 2nd anchor up with 30 to 50 ft of chain and have 200ft of line ready to go. If you stored the anchor back from the bow on deck somewhere you'd still have a back up anchor handy. This set up has worked for me for many years, but it is just one way of doing it.
I have a vertical maxwell windlass. I have been using a spade anchor for two years and it works great.

[HopCar]

The 20kg 44lb Rocna sounds like a good choice. I wouldn't carry a second anchor on the bow. Store a nice big Fortress below with a spare rode. The Fortress is great in soft mud and it is easy to deploy from a dinghy if you get yourself stuck and need to kedge off.
I sell anchors and would love the opportunity to quote you on what ever you choose.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by StuartSailor

My wife and I hosted a party for our local sailing club at our house last weekend and I asked 10 cruisers the same question. I received 10 different answers and they were all correct, for their boats at least.

What about having 2 anchors on the bow? One using the existing hawse hole and the other using a windlass with all rode in the divided anchor locker.

Originally Posted by HopCar

The 20kg 44lb Rocna sounds like a good choice. I wouldn't carry a second anchor on the bow. Store a nice big Fortress below with a spare rode. The Fortress is great in soft mud and it is easy to deploy from a dinghy if you get yourself stuck and need to kedge off.

Jesse, I'm surprised you only got 10 different answers. Around here, ask 10 folks and you can get 20 different answers....

I would indeed consider carrying a second anchor on the bow -- IF you have a second roller system already installed. No clue what that might do to your weight distribution, though.

Otherwise, we do the same as HopCar's recommendation: a big Fortress, usually dismantled and stowed. In fact, if we had two rollers, I might be tempted to mount two different -- non-Fortress -- bow anchors and STILL carry a Fortress stowed.

-Chris

[skipgundlach]

Ranger42, that's what we do, also. The 37 Fortress is disassembled in a bag. Next to it in the lazarette is a bag with 50' of 5/16 G40/200' of 1" Megabraid. We also have a similar bag for the knocked-down CQR knockoff.

Primary and secondary anchors on our bow are Rocna 33KG/300' of 5/16 G4 and Delta 55/125' of 5/16 G4/150MB1" in a 44000 pound boat (Morgan 461) - or maybe less, as it was only from slings; design weight is 33K and we removed the generator...

One item of interest in these skinny-shanked anchors is that it has to come over the roller - a 90° turn, usually, which is a terrific stress on both the roller and the joint. As well, it pretty well cuts up rollers. Some engineer no doubt could tell you what the pressure on that was at that point; I can't, but LOTS of cut up rollers tell me it's so.

We went to a cantilever lever with two rollers. The anchor comes up straight until the pull starts on the aft/upper roller - by which time the anchor's already on the skids, so to speak, and it lifts right up without the hitch at the shackle.

Pictures: Flying Pig Refit 2011-2012/Anchor System Refit/6 - Rocna Addition and Modifications

First pic is an aluminum mockup, and the finished product is shown further in.

As well, you can bop around in the other galleries in that section by going to the top of the page and clicking the next section back in the line at the top - this one's uphill section is the one with 'refit'.

[neophytecruiser]

IMHO, ground tackle considerations should both vessel and cruising area. With your Tartan 37, concentrating weight in the bow (and/stern) will result in hobby horsing. This will result in having a significant negative effect on your boats sailing performance well beyond its racing potential.

One hundred feet of chain with 8 strand rode for the remainder should be adequate for most situations. The length of chain (and rode) will be dependent on where you plan to cruise. Two hundred feet of ground tackle may be adequate for the Bahamas but for the Eastern Pacific, may be too short for some areas. Anchoring in rocks or coral you may want to consider more chain.


As an aside, hanging a dink with an OB off the stern on boats like ours carry many of the same effects when it comes to sailing efficiency.

[kerrydeare]

Originally Posted by StuartSailor

... I have a Tartan 37 weighing 15,500 pounds with a 35 lb CQR on 30 feet of 3/8 chain with 200 feet of 5/8 nylon rode. I am considering moving to the 44 lb Rockna with 150 feet of 5/16 HT chain and braiding(?) the 200 feet of 5/8. I was also considering 100-125 feet of 3/8 chain but am concerned that might be too much weight ... What about having 2 anchors on the bow? ... Most of my anchoring however, will be in shallow Florida east coast, keys, bahamas, caribbean ... one day...

The T-34 is a fine yacht. I wish you'd been more specific about your plans and your timing, because in general that's a very good indicator of the appropriate gear. In any case ...

In the near term (FL East Coast and the Keys), you're probably just fine as you stand. With only short chain, you don't really need a windlass (I use a 35 CQR with 60 feet of chain and my "windless" consists of several pairs of heavy work gloves). No problems with well over 100,000 NM under the keel. When you move over to the Bahama Islands (and depending to some extent on the season), it's never a bad idea to go one or two sizes higher. That puts you into the 45 to 60 pound range, and depending on your choice of chain, you can consider a windlass. It's a good feeling to have a lot of steel on the bottom when a typical Norther (or worse) makes its way through the Islands. Remember however that a windlass is double-edged: they take much more time to deploy and haul, and (more importantly) they break. I include manual windlasses in the last comment.

I cannot address the modern anchors because I've simply never had a problem with the 35 CQR. When necessary I can deploy a wide assortment of the old style high tensile Danforth or patent anchors (not really sure they are still manufactured to the old design and scantlings). The latter have been set in pairs on some occasions with excellent results, and they range in size up to 35 pounds. This gets to be quite a lot of gear when you factor in chain and rodes.

No sir, anchoring is not simple. Yet in my experience it's the first and perhaps most important step in good seamanship.

[Cheechako]

I see you are in Florida. I think you are about right on... on what you are thinking, anchor, chain and rode wise. However.....
I like vertical windlasses a lot. But would not go less than 150ft of chain with one.... they are very cumbersome to use the nylon rode if you get that much out.... tough to get it back in.... on many you cant just push the soft rode back in... someone will have to be below to drag it through.
I might go with 200 ft of chain with the vertical windlass.
With a horizontal windlass it's often easier to "fish the wet noodle" back thru the hawse pipe.
But horizontals are more trouble in every day use of the chain rode in my experience.
Everything is a compromise.

[cabo_sailor]

Like you said, many different opinions and all are usually correct for somewhere.

For the windlass I'm installing a new Maxwell VC. They claim their new design gypsy will handle chain and 8 brait seamlessly. Doesn't really matter to me since my primary rode is 200 ft 5/16 in G4 with a 45 lb CQR. My boat tends to squat and the extra weight seems to help.

My secondary is also carried on the bow but it's lighter. Sixty ft of 5/16 in chain plus 200 ft of 5/8 in 8 brait. That's connected to a Fortress FX-23. Really fast to deploy. For SW FL be sure to attach the mud palms.

If I had the money I would seriously consider replacing the CQR with a Mantus. Everything I've read is how great the new gen anchors are.

I freely admit that what I have is overkill for where I anchor normally. Oh and the boat displaces roughly 24,000 lbs.

I like to sleep well and avoid things that go bump in night.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by StuartSailor

Hello to all. New member of this site and anxious to find the kind of support I've read about for others. I suspect most of my questions will be similar to others so I will read some of the other threads for additional information that may help my situation.

I am in the process of upgrading my ground tackle and anchor which I know can get the eyes rolling at this old topic as well as generate a lot of discussion. My wife and I hosted a party for our local sailing club at our house last weekend and I asked 10 cruisers the same question. I received 10 different answers and they were all correct, for their boats at least.

I'm excited to see what you all can recommend. I have a Tartan 37 weighing 15,500 pounds with a 35 lb CQR on 30 feet of 3/8 chain with 200 feet of 5/8 nylon rode. I am considering moving to the 44 lb Rockna with 150 feet of 5/16 HT chain and braiding(?) the 200 feet of 5/8. I was also considering 100-125 feet of 3/8 chain but am concerned that might be too much weight. My question is more about the weight in the bow. I'm interested in what other owners with similar size/weight boat use for their ground tackle than what anchor you're using. I realize my racing performance will suffer somewhat but I'm more concerned about cruising weight than racing weight. What about having 2 anchors on the bow? One using the existing hawse hole and the other using a windlass with all rode in the divided anchor locker. Most of my anchoring however, will be in shallow Florida east coast, keys, bahamas, caribbean hopefully one day.

I'm also interested in windlass experience. I'm pretty well sold on a vertical unit and have seen many Lewmar and Maxwell options. Haven't checked out the Lofrans units yet. Velara on another page where I posted this question had a great suggestion to add a wash down pump so any details on size etc. also appreciated.

Thank you so much and again, very glad to be part of this great community.

Jesse
s/v Sailsman

Welcome aboard, Jesse.

We went through this exercise last summer and ended up replacing the windlass and chain, and keeping the bower [80# SuperMax] and back-up [60lb Genuine CQR] that came with the boat.

RE: Anchor choices: We will be replacing the CQR with an 83# Rocna Vulcan next time we are in the vicinity of a supplier, and that will likely become the best bower. [Even though we are very happy with the SuperMax performance and adjustability in our northern waters with varying bottom types...]

We are very pleased with our new [1 year old...] solid stainless steel windlass can handle both bow anchors simultaneously. [Lighthouse Manufacturing.]

We went with 550ft of 5/16" G43 chain [360ft chain + 100ft 1in 3-strand nylon on the main bower, and 190ft chain + 100ft 1in 3-strand nylon] on a boat that weighs in at 22 tons. [Anchorages in higher latitudes tend to run deep...]

For more details about our decision making process and a collection of detailed installation photos, see our blog post on this topic.

I hope you have fun with your project.

Cheers!

Bill

[BobH260]

We cruise Florida east coast, Keys and Bahamas. Our 35 ft Hunter displaces 14000 lbs., plus we have a 3.5 KW generator and live aboard for 5 months of the year so quite well loaded. We draft 5'.

We have been using a 35 lb Manson Supreme, 80 Ft of chain, 150' rode. We have never dragged, always sets right away. We keep a Fortress on the bow as well, with 35' chain and 150 Ft rode. Never used the Fortress yet. We use a Lewmar windlass.

We seldom anchor in more than 10 ft of water. If we have room I let out the 80 ft of chain then another 8 ft of rode. So then don't need to use a snubber. The windlass has not had problem with the rode or passing the splice.

I don't use a swivel.

If I was starting over I might look at a bit heavier Mantus or Rocna. We bought the Manson when Rocna was having alloy issues. I don't think the welds are as good on the Manson as the others.

We noticed if the winds are less than 10 kts. over night the chain has not been pulled straight with the tide changes, so wonder if we could have gone with no anchor ?

Enjoy ! Bob