Anyone Using an 'Ultra' Anchor?

[GMac]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

WHAT'S OBVIOUS IS THE STATE OF ANCHORS NEEDS TO IMPROVE. HOPEFULLY SOME OF THE NEWCOMERS WILL DO THAT!

They do .

[theonecalledtom]

Hi Rod Lambert - I was grateful for you feedback - thanks! I'm currently equiped with a couple of CQRs and a Danforth and at somepoint will *probably* swap out a CQR for something else. Might be that the Ultra ends up being to similar to the CQR but then again might not.

Happy sailing!

[eyschulman]

Its obviously very hard to get any really reliable comparisons of anchors- Must be too many flukes involved.

[Rotto Rules]

Ok the sand box demo may not be convincing but check out this clip

[Highlander40]

OK guys I have to chime in too. The new anchors are way better. The difference between Rocna , Spade , Ultra etc is small and everyone will argue some point.
I have used a CQR, Danforth, Fortress , Bruce and finally Spade. The important thing is that the new designs are stable in changing winds, set instantly and have higher holding power.
If you have an old school anchor, use it as a door stop! The spade has out perfomed in every difficult bottom. I went to many places that I had trouble hooking up with the older anchors and every time the Spade hooked up instantly and did not move.
We were in the Norwalk islands and a squall came through. The only other boat in the area dragged into us and the spade held both boats.
I know that the talk will never stop but the new anchors really are a big step in the right direction.
I do question why anyone would buy a stainless anchor? The failure mode is not good.

[Highlander40]

Went to the Norwalk CT boat show and looked at the Ultra anchors.
My first comment to the rep was- this is a refined Spade. He said yes!
They have smoothed the shape out and put a little curve into the point to make it dig in better. The main things are the same- the tip is weighted and the shank is hollow. The Ultra uses an tapered oval tubular shank instead of a rectangular cross section tapered hollow one.
The shank is welded in place rather than fit in a socket and pinned.
As far a durability and strength of that joint-- you would have to do destructive testing. My feeling as an engineer is that galvanised steel is stronger and less prone to stress cracking BUT stainless can be made just as strong-it will just weigh more for an equal strength.
I have already spent my money on a Spade (which I thought was a LOT of money) and the Ultra is at least 1.5 times that cost. It is pretty and appears to be well made.

While at the booth I did buy one of their ball swivels and a chain hook. Good stuff.

[ACM_Dynasty_CRO]

Hi guys, I have just bought an 45lbs Ultra for my 43ft, 10t motor boat. I have a 10mm chain. I will take it out for a spin next weekned, and I will let you know my initial impressions.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Highlander40

I do question why anyone would buy a stainless anchor?

Oh, come on. Don't pretend you don't know the one-word answer to your own question -- "BLING!"

I find it a pretty persuasive argument, that, myself.

[Hiracer]

Originally Posted by Seeratlas

So, do these kite and parachute pilots anchor anywhere near me, that's what I want to know?

[Hiracer]

Originally Posted by Highlander40

The shank is welded in place rather than fit in a socket and pinned.
As far a durability and strength of that joint-- you would have to do destructive testing. My feeling as an engineer is that galvanised steel is stronger and less prone to stress cracking BUT stainless can be made just as strong-it will just weigh more for an equal strength.

I asked the company if they are going to come out with a galvanized steel version, and they said definitely in a few months. That was two years ago.

I like the Ultra in concept. It's the execution I wonder about. Can bending the tip back (to increase the angle of attack) weaken the metal, regardless whether SS or mild steel?

I always worry about a welded on shank. What if somebody was having a bad day? That was the attraction of one piece anchors, e.g., Bruce, CQR. OTOH, the Spade sort of gets around this with a mechanical attachment based on molded parts.

Question, are there any reports of welded shanks actually giving way?? I've heard none. That says something regarding welded on shanks.

OTOH, isn't there a risk of crevice corrosition for SS welds?

And, are SS welds as strong as mild steel welds?

[Highlander40]

John,
Stainless can be formed quite a bit.
I think the risky part is that a stainless part can be shiney and bright, right up to the day it falls apart. Sort of like the early aluminum bikes, they would fatigue and fail in a big way with no warning. Thing is, they worked out the problems. Mostly welding techniques and post fabrication heat treating. I used to ride with a guy from Cannondale.
The Ultra anchor is made of top shelf stainless. They are not skimping there. Welding and forming stainless is a mature skill that should produce a durable anchor. Still I would like to see where it fails.
What do you think happens to all that shine when you use it a lot?

Carl

[Hiracer]

Carl,

Well, if you are going to talk about failure mode and bikes, you can't leave out carbon.

Back when I used to ride, I would talk about carbon's castastrophic failure mode, and people would get stupid and think I meant carbon is weak and failure prone, which of course it's not. But when it goes, it can go without any hint of prior warning.

There was a guy in Florida a couple of years ago who died when his carbon Trek imploded for no reason. He went down and broke his neck; died on the spot. He was riding in line and nobody reported so much as a bump in the road. He had felt something wasn't right and had taken his bike to a shop a couple of times for inspection, and it passsed inspecton each time. Then one day, whamo.

Good example of why failure mode is important for critical service. Nothing is perfect; anything can break. The trick is to hope to see the warnings before it breaks. Same with anchors. That's one of the wonders of mild steel. It usually broadcasts problems before it breaks, via deformation, etc. Good failure mode.

SS I know less about. If it can be formed, then that suggests elasticity similar to mild steel, which is good.

SS welds in water. Is that an issue? I've heard that SS water tanks in sailboats, even 316L, is not a good idea because the welds don't last. The welds are the weak link. That leads me to question SS welds on an anchor. The difference might be that most anchors don't spend all that much time underwater, unlike welds in water tankage.

And I don't think SS welds are as strong as mild steel welds.

[Hiracer]

Originally Posted by Highlander40

What do you think happens to all that shine when you use it a lot?

Not this model, but there seem to be quite a few SS anchors in my marina (Delta types) and they actually seem to hold up quite well in the appearance department. They keep on looking good, lots better than beat up galvanized anchors.

I have to say the galvanization on my Spade is not impressive. Not exactly bad, but not holding up as well as the CQR, Claw, or Max that I've used. I would definitely give the nod to SS for looks, even after beating it up--based on what I've seen locally.

An aside: How many times do you have to re-galvanize an anchor before the economics of SS become more competative?? I'm reminded of how Evans Starzinger lost his beloved Bruce when it cracked during regalvanization.

OTOH, one fouled SS anchor in a remote anchorage would really ruin my day.

Final aside: I'm saving the lead from a Flying Scot centerboard for the day my Spade needs regalvanization. I understand that the lead must come out before regalvanization, and it's nice to have some backup lead after the first batch is lost during the removal process. One of the downsides of lead-weighted anchors. If you are a world cruiser what do you do, carry lead in the bilge? LOL.

[Sahara]

Originally Posted by Hiracer

SS welds in water. Is that an issue? I've heard that SS water tanks in sailboats, even 316L, is not a good idea because the welds don't last. The welds are the weak link. That leads me to question SS welds on an anchor. The difference might be that most anchors don't spend all that much time underwater, unlike welds in water tankage.

Good post, and good points on the carbon and failure modes.

Some years ago I was involved in having 316L pressure vessels built for oilfield service - high carbonic acid content in produced water from a CO2 oil recovery project. The welds were of particular concern to us, the problem is differential microstructure corrosion in the heat affected area (that's how it was explained to me, at least), so after welding we had the entire vessel normalized - put in a big oven, brought up to a specific temp, then slowly cooled. Basically made the weld area the same as the rest of the metal. Mind you, these were 10' diameter by 15' long vessels. These vessels are now about 27 years old, have been in continuous flooded service, and never a failure.

It seems to me that an anchor is a pretty small piece of work, and it would be easy to normalize these in batches to reduce the risk of weld failure.

That said, the only stuff I'm going to hang off my bow and drag thru rocks and mud is going to be galvanized.

[Hiracer]

Sahara,

The show stopper for me is the thought of fouling a SS anchor in a remote anchorage. I couldn't sleep with that. I'm waaaaaay too cheap for that.

The only reason why I can sleep with the idea of throwaway Spades is because I got good deals on both of them.

I seriously doubt that Ultra is normalizing their welds. If they did, we would surely hear about it. The PR department would never pass on that kind of opportunity.