Anyone Using an 'Ultra' Anchor?

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Even in the unlikely event you bend the anchor, Ultra will replace it for free... No questions asked.

I think this is great feature. We have Fortress to thank for this. They pioneered this sort of warrantee when no one else offered it.

It is now offered by a lot of manufacturers.

Fortress
Rocna
Mantus
Ultra

I will do some digging when I have better Internet access. I think it's worthwhile information. It is complicated because some companies offer a lifetime warranty only for certain models or when purchased from certain venues (like West Marine).

If anyone wants to chip in I think a list will be helpful. I will start a new thread to avoid cluttering up this one and keep the information easy to find.

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by JonJo

If the Ultra shank was deemed less than adequate and needed not one but 2 webs of internal steel reinforcing (complex from a manufacturing point of view - thus expensive?) what happened to the happy punters who bought before the upgrade?

Rocna stepped upto the mark, I never thought I would ever say this, but they, Rocna (or CMP), are looking like an example to follow.

Jonathan

Jonathan, I'm not sure that is correct. The first reinforcement was a single plate that was first welded to one side, then holes were water drilled to allow welding the plate to the other side after the two halves were assembled. This was the expensive part, and they now are manufactured with two plates, each of which is only welded onto one side of the shank before the two halves of the shank are welded together. This provides stiffening on the horizontal axis where side loads would have to be absorbed.

For the shank to bend now, two two inch plates plus the shank would have to bend, which seems unlikely, at least to me.

[DainyRays]

I understand from a rep at the recent Annapolis sailboat show's booth, that if you purchase an Ultra and then decide you want a bigger Ultra for example (even after a year or more) that you will get 100% refund on the first one applied to the second one. I don't know of any other anchor company that will do this...

My issue right now is questioning whether I want galvanized chain with a stainless steel anchor OR do I bite the (huge) bullet and get stainless steel chain, even though I use a chain/rope combo rode.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by DainyRays

I understand from a rep at the recent Annapolis sailboat show's booth, that if you purchase an Ultra and then decide you want a bigger Ultra for example (even after a year or more) that you will get 100% refund on the first one applied to the second one. I don't know of any other anchor company that will do this...

My issue right now is questioning whether I want galvanized chain with a stainless steel anchor OR do I bite the (huge) bullet and get stainless steel chain, even though I use a chain/rope combo rode.

Go with stainless, I wish I had. I plan on replacing our chain with all stainless following next summer. Galvanized sitting at the bottom of the locker always rusts, plus it doesn't spread out in the locker when retrieved, it piles up instead and I need to keep kicking it down... an accident waiting to happen each time the anchor is brought back up. Stainless comes up cleaner and doesn't pile up as high. The stainless steel Ultra anchor also comes up much cleaner than our old galvanized CQR and Rocna.

In the Med, stainless chain and anchors are more commonly seen than here in America, where rust and ugly seem to be a "badge of honor" in some cruisers minds. Form and function can be a thing of beauty as well as strong.

[DainyRays]

I've experienced the same thing with galvanized chain (it rusts sitting in the locker and it piles up on itself). I guess I will bite the (huge) bullet and go with stainless chain--I can probably get it used a Bacons here locally in Annapolis. Thanks for the advice!

[JonJo]

Originally Posted by Delfin

Jonathan, I'm not sure that is correct. The first reinforcement was a single plate that was first welded to one side, then holes were water drilled to allow welding the plate to the other side after the two halves were assembled. This was the expensive part, and they now are manufactured with two plates, each of which is only welded onto one side of the shank before the two halves of the shank are welded together. This provides stiffening on the horizontal axis where side loads would have to be absorbed.

For the shank to bend now, two two inch plates plus the shank would have to bend, which seems unlikely, at least to me.

Originally the shank was made without any internal reinforcing. I have an image of the original shank cut to show the interior - it was a part of the promotion at boat shows. - it was these shanks that suffered (and it is the owners of these shanks that might feel slightly aggrieved and unsure).

Presumably prompted by the levels of failure (which in Australia were not all honoured by 'a no questions asked return policy' - I know of an 80kg model', they introduced the internal web and it seems unlikely they would do it voluntarily. I was sent an image of the new development which as Delfin suggests was an internal web of steel welded to one half of the shank and then spot welded to the other half through holes cut when the 2 halves were assembled. I was not aware of the latest development, where each internal stiffening is a 'T' welded to one side (and not the other?).

If the original anchors were suspect then their should be some form of warning to original owners and morally, and following CMP's example, their should be some form of recall. If of course the original anchors are adequate one has to ask why on earth they are going to the expense of the internal re-inforcing.

Jonathan

[eyschulman]

Yes I own an ultra and used it this last summer in the NW anchoring in 30-60 foot depths. My boat is a Motor yacht at 50 ft loa 34,000lb. I have on previous boats used CQR- Bruce-Fortress-Manson-Spade anchors. In my opinion the Manson and the spades were superior to CQR and Bruce. The fortress had great holding power but not always easy to set or reset and prone to pull with reverse wind shift as in T storm. The spade type anchors(Spade-Manson-Ultra) have given me the best all around service. I bought my first Spade from Tunisia several years ago before they were available in the US and still have it and use it as a secondary. The Ultra I now own is right up there on top of my list. As an aside I notice that it tends to come up clean or relatively clean compared to other anchors I have owned.

[noelex 77]

Thanks for the input.
The steel Spade is a very good anchor at or near the the top of the list in many peoples opinion, so it is a great benchmark to use when evaluating the Ultra.

The Ultra shares a lot in common with its design and is one of the few concave anchors that is suitable for boats that cannot accommodate a roll bar anchor.

A smooth stainless steel finish is much better than a galvanised finish at staying clean and shedding mud etc and this may account for the difference between the Ultra and the others. (Were they SS?). It is not a feature a rate as very important, but all observations are interesting.

Have you been able to discern any other difference between the Spade and the Ultra? Strengths, weakness?

Have you put the Ultra to the test in any adverse conditions yet?

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by JonJo

Presumably prompted by the levels of failure (which in Australia were not all honoured by 'a no questions asked return policy'

Ultra have now stated publicly on CF that they will cover all anchors that are bent (providing they are not undersized and shipping is not included). See here:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...es-113472.html

The Australian anchors you saw may have been before the implementation of this policy, but they now seem to offering a great warranty like Anchor Right, Fortress, Mantus and Rocna. In contrast the other anchor companies will not normally cover an anchor that is bent.

[JonJo]

Hopefully with the new reinforced shank there will be no opportunity for the anchor to bend.

They appear to have responded (which is unusual) and positively to ensure that the product is as bullet proof as possible (overkill) even though they suggest failure rate has been minimal.

All credit to them.

All they need to do now is make the same model (or something similar) in gal and get the pricing right - and they could make real waves.

Jonathan

[Anders]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Ultra have now stated publicly on CF that they will cover all anchors that are bent (providing they are not undersized and shipping is not included). See here:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...es-113472.html

The Australian anchors you saw may have been before the implementation of this policy, but they now seem to offering a great warranty like Anchor Right, Fortress, Mantus and Rocna. In contrast the other anchor companies will not normally cover an anchor that is bent.

But their website still says:
"the Ultra Anchor is supplied with a LIFETIME WARRANTY against manufacturing defects under normal conditions and use."

And how much is a warranty worth when you have to pay shipping both ways?

[noelex 77]

Erkutay Yücel from Ultra have assured the forum that the anchor is covered for bending even under abnormal conditions such as jammed under a rock (providing the size is adequate, which seems very reasonable)

We have no reason to doubt his word on this matter.

I think the warranty for all anchor companies has been an evolving issue with companies that previously did not cover bending (such as Rocna) now offering this. I suspect this may explain the the differing wording on some websites.

I think we should praise the companies that have offered this Anchor Right, Fortress, Mantus, Rocna and Ultra. As Ultra have said this not so much a warranty but an insurance policy. Reassuring when you are perhaps dropping over $1000 (in the larger sizes or SS) worth of equipment over the side onto the seabed full of rocks and other hazards.

Originally Posted by Anders

And how much is a warranty worth when you have to pay shipping both ways?

Shipping costs for large anchors can be expensive. Even finding a courier to transport a large anchor can be a challenge if it needs to be shipped back. Here the extra coverage of Mantus, (that ship at no charge) and Fortress (that charge for shipping one way, but given the lightweight and dismountable nature of the anchor this cost will be small) is fantastic.

Rocna are probably next best with an extensive dealership that should ensure shipping costs are not exorbitant.

Ultra (with dealers in Europe and USA) and Anchor Right with only dealers in Australia may potentially have a high delivery cost, depending on your location, but if we get an anchor jammed under a rock it is still a very generous deal offered by these companies. Far superior to their main competitors such as Manson or Spade that do not cover the most likely problem of bending at all.

[eyschulman]

I have not been in severe conditions with the ultra. I have had to use short scope on occasion in crowded harbors. I have no way of knowing if is better than a similar sized spade all the modern spade types seem to preform well for me. I carry a ultra and an AL spade as 2nd anchor on my present boat. The AL spade comes in handy because it breaks down for storage and is a good anchor for setting from the dinghy. I was a little put off regarding the Manson and Ronca anchors when practical sailor found in the 180 degree flip tests that the bars prevented resetting while the spade types reset otherwise I would just as soon own the cheaper Manson.

[CarlF]

I would argue that Rocna did not "step up".

The previous owners of Rocna were accused of committing fraud - that they claimed one steel but may knowingly have used an inferior one. There has never been a recall program for the Rocna's to my knowledge. West Marine, in an impressive move, offered to let their customers return the anchors - but never admitted that the anchors were defective nor took care of people who bought from other dealers (quite reasonable)

West Marine update » Rocna Anchors

As far as I know, there was no effort by Rocna's old or new owners (or West Marine) to notify Rocna anchor owners or to recall the anchors. If you heard about it on a forum you were in luck (although I don't think free shipping was ever offered. Fortunately, West Marine has a lot of stores if you are in the US).

I'm not aware of anyone accusing Ultra of substituting out of spec materials. I would hope all manufacturers would constantly try to improve their product (such as adding reinforcement in the shank). Unless there was a serious design defect, we have to assume they were just making a good product better. Would you claim that you get a free new model car because it has better safety equipment than the old model you bought?

That said, I think this focus on bent shanks is a bit overdone. It can happen to any anchor - but doesn't happen often. The Rocna (with the spec steel), the Ultra, and most other name brand anchors are impressively tough. I've owned a lot of anchors and have not bent a shank - although I have bent and broken other parts of well known anchors.

Bending an anchor under a rock is really not the manufacturer's fault (although I'm sure glad Ultra will cover it). I can only assume this is an easy warranty for them to offer because they hardly ever have a claim.

That makes me feel even better about my Ultra.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by eyschulman

I have not been in severe conditions with the ultra. I have had to use short scope on occasion in crowded harbors. I have no way of knowing if is better than a similar sized spade all the modern spade types seem to preform well for me. I carry a ultra and an AL spade as 2nd anchor on my present boat. The AL spade comes in handy because it breaks down for storage and is a good anchor for setting from the dinghy. I was a little put off regarding the Manson and Ronca anchors when practical sailor found in the 180 degree flip tests that the bars prevented resetting while the spade types reset otherwise I would just as soon own the cheaper Manson.

Thanks for your thoughts.
An aluminium anchor anchor is great kedge/ stern anchor, but unfortunately the aluminium Spade has some limitations.
Anchor performance with a change of direction of pull is an important characteristic, but it is difficult simulate accurately.

I have watched many of anchors in the real world and the Manson Supreme and Rocna perform well, staying buried and swivelling underneath the substrate. The Steel Spade is also excellent.
Anchor simulations sometimes report a "flip and reset" when in practice this rarely happens with a good anchor when the anchor is well set. I think it is an aspect of anchor performance where it is difficult duplicate real world performance.