Best knot for tying stern line to rocks when med mooring

[goboatingnow]

Sending a person ashore while “ my wife keeps the boat out at sea “ by the time you do that three Italian yachts will have taken the space and one will pick up your buoy as a mooring

Just watch the vast majority do.

Drop anchor back up. If there’s another yacht nearby you can ask nicely and tie your stern to them temporarily , run your engine astern to hold position against your anchor

Get the windward line ashore and in the winch on the yacht.

Winch In

Lay out the looward line at your leisure

Best yet have kids ( 2 preferably ) of swimming age.

[wingssail]

I keep reading about swimming ashore with the line.

Where I have tied the stern ashore, mostly on the west side of Vancouver Island, we don't jump in that water and swim ashore; it's too bloody cold.

It's best to row in with the dingy.

As for a knot, I really prefer to run my line around the strong point and back to the boat.

We use 300' 1/4" polypropylene which is usually long enough. If it is not long enough we put an extension on the standing part. If you doubt that you can pull the line off the rock or tree to leave, put short loop around the strongpoint, run your line through that loop and just leave it for the next guy.

With this method if you need to bug out in a hurry nobody has to go ashore to untie it, you just let it run and retrieve it from the boat.

[David M]

Take the line out to the rock, run it around the rock and run it back to the boat. This way you do not have to untie the line when you want to go. Just slip it around the rock.

[Davo1404]

After many years of stern lining in the Marlborough Sounds in New Zealand. I always returned the line to the boat. This was a safety requirement that I was taught. If you have to leave in a hurry, then you just need to pull the line in.

[goboatingnow]

Almost no one in the Med loops the line back to the boat. Needs way too much line. You need 2 lines ashore in many places and carry 200 metres of bulky line isn’t a runner. That’s before you try and coil it and dry it etc.

Everyone uses hollow braid polypropylene in this area of Greece as its cheap , floating and highly visible.

If you really need to bug out fast , drop the line. A line looped around the typically ragged rocks won’t run free anyway and or will shred itself as you try and retrieve it. Don’t bother

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by wingssail

I keep reading about swimming ashore with the line.



Where I have tied the stern ashore, mostly on the west side of Vancouver Island, we don't jump in that water and swim ashore; it's too bloody cold.



It's best to row in with the dingy.

We are talking about the Med which I think is the, of nearly the, warmest sea in the world.

[requiem]

I agree with the importance of being able to release (and ideally retrieve) lines from the boat, whether by doubling back or simply using a cleat hitch if not.

I really don't like the idea of running a line around a tree or rock. If you had to pull it that's very bad for a tree and a rock can act like a jam cleat. If connected back to the boat as a bridle, any yawing can result in sawing action.

Should you have enough line to double back I'd think I'd prefer slinging the rock or tree and running the line through a shackle if using a bridle setup.

Everyone uses hollow braid polypropylene in this area of Greece as its cheap , floating and highly visible.

I can see that, but isn't it also rather vulnerable to UV and has a really low melting point (particularly vulnerable to friction)?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by requiem

I agree with the importance of being able to release (and ideally retrieve) lines from the boat, whether by doubling back or simply using a cleat hitch if not.

I really don't like the idea of running a line around a tree or rock. If you had to pull it that's very bad for a tree and a rock can act like a jam cleat. If connected back to the boat as a bridle, any yawing can result in sawing action.

Should you have enough line to double back I'd think I'd prefer slinging the rock or tree and running the line through a shackle if using a bridle setup.



I can see that, but isn't it also rather vulnerable to UV and has a really low melting point (particularly vulnerable to friction)?

Seems to last many seasons and do the job fine. I have 2x50m of it (16mm for a 36 footer ) I can easily cut damaged ends off etc.

It’s not worth bringing in lengths of chain etc. Way too much hassle , only bother if staying many days. ( ie >3 )

Looping back simply doesn’t work as the line will jam in almost all cases

As for trees , the tough stuff here in Greece that passes for trees is more then able for a bit of rough treatment and typically jams the line as well

In extremis just dump the line (2 lines)and come back later, though in general if the conditions require very quick departure usually there is pandemonium all over the place

[SaltyMetals]

Agree with some of the earlier comments about loopimng back. No good in the Med, too much line and you would have to leave behind/sacrifice a loop of about 3-4 metres (10-12 ft). Over a period of two months and an average stop of 4 days in each place that is 15 x 3 metres of sacrificed loops. But hold on a sec! Most of the time with a line-ashore mooring it requires 2 lines ashore so at the end of the period you will have sacrificed 90 metres (250ft) of rope in total. That is why i shackle 3 metres of SS chain on the end of my mooring lines with a SS clip on the end since i have had too many ropes cut by sharp rocks (a particular problem in the Adriatic with the Karst stone being so sharp.
I also agree that after trying many different techniques i find it easiest to take the dinghy ashore (wearing shoes) and fix the line to the shore first, then having set the anchor on the boat to back the boat up to meet the person coming out with the shore line in a dinghy. If the shore line is too short there is always the option of letting out more chain to get closer to shore, if the depth allows.

What i have not yet figured out is how to do this when sailing solo since the boat is likely to drift off to one side in the wind. Maybe drop the kedge from the stern to hold it in place while securing the line ashore?
Andrew

[Perna]

Just a comment, which I hope doesn't derail the thread; I've never really understood the desire to back up to the rocks for an overnight stay unless there is a real shortage of space. You see boats coming into large bays, where there is ample room to swing free but nevertheless they spend a fair amount of time tying themselves securely close to the rocks. These are often steepish cliffs so any squalls that come up in the night will be running along the shore broadside on to the boat which puts a far greater load on the anchor making it much more likely to drag and hey, where are they?, tied securely and very close to the rocks.

Having had a couple of experiences hurriedly letting go of the lines in the middle of a dark squally night, we sort of gave up on that idea.

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by acunningham

For those in the Mediterranean, how long a floating line would you suggest buying for a medium sized boat (15m/50' long, 2.15m draft)?

I would suggest longer than 50m proposed above.
Better have line/s at about 70m.
We have 70m strap on special wheel and it is not too long.
If you are not frightened by the cost, best solution is dyneema strap on a wheel. Lightweight, floating and the wheel makes it easy to deploy/collect.
Just make an arrangement to use an extra line or chain to connect the shore end to the shore fixed object and not the dyneeme strap directly.

[Hydra]

Originally Posted by Perna

Just a comment, which I hope doesn't derail the thread; I've never really understood the desire to back up to the rocks for an overnight stay unless there is a real shortage of space. You see boats coming into large bays, where there is ample room to swing free but nevertheless they spend a fair amount of time tying themselves securely close to the rocks. These are often steepish cliffs so any squalls that come up in the night will be running along the shore broadside on to the boat which puts a far greater load on the anchor making it much more likely to drag and hey, where are they?, tied securely and very close to the rocks.

Having had a couple of experiences hurriedly letting go of the lines in the middle of a dark squally night, we sort of gave up on that idea.

Sometimes, space is in a short supply. The anchorage in the picture isn't in the Med but in South Brittany, not in summer but in May. Too deep and narrow to swing or anchor bow and stern, except for one yacht in the background.
Alain

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Perna

Just a comment, which I hope doesn't derail the thread; I've never really understood the desire to back up to the rocks for an overnight stay unless there is a real shortage of space. You see boats coming into large bays, where there is ample room to swing free but nevertheless they spend a fair amount of time tying themselves securely close to the rocks. These are often steepish cliffs so any squalls that come up in the night will be running along the shore broadside on to the boat which puts a far greater load on the anchor making it much more likely to drag and hey, where are they?, tied securely and very close to the rocks.



Having had a couple of experiences hurriedly letting go of the lines in the middle of a dark squally night, we sort of gave up on that idea.

There are several reasons , in many parts of the Med especially the eastern Med bays are very deep often 30 metres at 4-5 boat lengths from the cliff

Anchoring in less water runs the risk of swinging into the cliff.

Secondly. Under pressure of boats in a popular anchorage you get serious swinging room issues. Especially if the wind goes completely flat and the yachts start to lie to their catenary weights.

The third reason is simply etiquette , in a place like Kastos on the Ionian it’s common practice to anchor on the other side of the quay wall when the quay is full , or to anchor on the opposite side near the beach.

One yacht just swinging would consume 6 yachts spaces. ( you’d get shouted out of it fairly rapidly )

Hence the common practice of two lines ashore.

I agree it’s awful if things go wrong and you need out fast

All you can do is cut and run ( leaving a floating line in the water !!!) thankfully it’s rare.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by meirriba

I would suggest longer than 50m proposed above.
Better have line/s at about 70m.
We have 70m strap on special wheel and it is not too long.
If you are not frightened by the cost, best solution is dyneema strap on a wheel. Lightweight, floating and the wheel makes it easy to deploy/collect.
Just make an arrangement to use an extra line or chain to connect the shore end to the shore fixed object and not the dyneeme strap directly.

We carry 100m 3/8 three stand nylon and often additional 100m 3/8 poly. The nylon is used for a stern anchor. The poly is for shore lines but we can either for either purpose. We can run two stern lines ashore.

Each line fits in a half of a milk carton in the lazarette.

I believe these lines are strong enough for the purpose of preventing swinging on the main anchor and rode.

Losing the sacrificial loop is unusual, you usually can go ashore and untie it and take it with you, but if you have to get out casting off is good seamanship.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Hydra

Sometimes, space is in a short supply. The anchorage in the picture isn't in the Med but in South Brittany, not in summer but in May. Too deep and narrow to swing or anchor bow and stern, except for one yacht in the background. Alain

Nice photo