Bridle Chafing on Bobstay

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Guy

But the pull on a snubber would be in the same direction as the bob stay pull, if you use a block at the Cranse Iron. If your snubber could pull out your Cut Water fitting, it was not strong enough anyway.

I do not use any block. I use a separate fitting some 4 inches below the bobstay fitting. I like the idea of leading the snubber from bowsprit's end too - it is further fore and thus may limit the boat's ballet round the hook.

You are right the lower fitting is mighty enough but it is not normally designed for that job, unless your is.

b.

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by Guy

I was probably talking out my ass. It was the Pardey's who wrote about this and Toss just just refers to their set up as an example of something he likes. I have no library handy to check.
Seems like if you have a proper bow sprit and rig it would handle the loads whatever the conditions were like. I know I would never change the snubber set up we have for any storm. It is really chafe free. I suppose you would add additional snubbers in a bad situation but they would probably chafe if they came under load for very long.

I think you're probably right overall; in both cases they said that that load on the block (and the end of a bowsprit) will never exceed what the rig is designed to handle. It would be one thing if you made your chain fast to the end up there, but if it's a line it's basically the same as hauling up a halyard. Sure, the block at the top is under load but the winch you're using at the deck or mast base is the termination point.

Part of the reason I didn't put the block out there in the end is because I'm anchoring in places where we'll end up stern-to the anchor because of crossed up tides and winds. I didn't want the block to get tangled or mess around with the bobstay. When I get a place that doesn't have mixed up conditions like that I'll experiment with "the Pardey way".

[Stonefloat]

Originally Posted by Vasco

The best solution would be to attach the end of the snubber to the bobstay attachment point on the stem of the boat.

This is what we have done on Avalon , we attached 4 meters of nylon at the stem with a swivel and short length of chain. The end of the snubber is then run up through the roller on bowsprit for storage, then it's easy to put a rolling hitch on chain . We also keep a 25 mt length for storm conditions ready to bend on to the stem..... Cheers, Stonefloat

[zeehag]

with a formosa 51 or force 50, one would use a similar set up as would a formosa 41.
place the ends of the BRIDLE you use as a snubber thru each hawse and attach the hook to the chain at the water line. is perfect. no lopsided yawing and full comfort. try it.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Vasco

The best solution would be to attach the end of the snubber to the bobstay attachment point on the stem of the boat.

My steel boat has this option in the form of two 1/4" holes in a half-inch piece of steel plate just above the waterline. The top hole secures the fork of the bobstay's turnbuckle and the bottom hole is for a shackle to secure the snubber, right at the waterline where it can do the most good.

Fibreglass boats can retrofit a fabricated metal plate strong enough to handle the loads fairly easily.

Alternatively, and far more cheaply, you can Dremel or coping saw (very carefully!) a spiral of about a turn and a half into a narrow piece of PVC tubing. This should be easy to fit over the bobstay and should be rigid enough to stay put and yet flexible enough to roll without "rolling off".

[zeehag]

to keep the bobstay and snubber separate one needs only to make a bridle so one end of the snubber goes thru each hawse. th e hook is in middle of line, make a knot to keep hook from moving and chafing. affix hook to chain below level of bobstay.
this is exactly what i have seen other f51s and force 50s do as well as all the formosa and ct and seawolf 41s.

it works.
try it.
you dont have to reinvent wheel or make new fittings below water line.

the goal of snubbers on our boats is to remove the load from the sprit and place it onto something stronger, like bow....this works. try it. then go to leaky teaky yacht club and see what others with your boat do.

the work it takes to get to that lower bobstay fitting isnt worth the effort of re doing that fitting. must be done out of water, btw. it is glassed into the hull..under the anchor locker...

just make a bridle and do it as we all do it with our nice long leaky teaky sprits. we have no problem.
happy sails

[rebel heart]

I'm just not into bridals. A single line snubber can be secured with a rolling hitch, you can easily rig multiples or switch them out in a jiffy, and you can distribute a lot of the movement forward by using a block.

I think the Larry Pardey and Brian Toss (both professional shiprites for decades and well respected for their knowledge) have identical ways of running snubbers from bowsprits. Personally I'm going to use that as my gold standard rather than just looking around at what other cruising boats are using.

There's talking to other sailors, then there's talking to multi circumnavigators who are professional shiprites.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by Vasco

The best solution would be to attach the end of the snubber to the bobstay attachment point on the stem of the boat.

+1
Bash's post (#25) shows how our previous boat was set up.
I was told by one of the designers of the Lord Nelson 35 that the extra hole in the bobstay hull fitting was put there for that very purpose and was an extremely strong attachment point.
The boat had a bowsprit nearly 8 feet long with the anchor rollers in the platform.
When raising anchor, I just let the chain hook come over the bow the roller, then I disconnected it and stowed it on the sprit.
Easy peasy and no chafe.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by rebel heart

.

I think the Larry Pardey and Brian Toss (both professional shiprites for decades and well respected for their knowledge) have identical ways of running snubbers from bowsprits. Personally I'm going to use that as my gold standard rather than just looking around at what other cruising boats are using.

There's talking to other sailors, then there's talking to multi circumnavigators who are professional shiprites.

While we are talking about Brian Toss, why does he only use 2 of 3 strands in a rope to chain splice?

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by Guy

While we are talking about Brian Toss, why does he only use 2 of 3 strands in a rope to chain splice?

Weird. That seems like it would be harder to do than the normal way.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

My steel boat has this option in the form of two 1/4" holes in a half-inch piece of steel plate just above the waterline. The top hole secures the fork of the bobstay's turnbuckle and the bottom hole is for a shackle to secure the snubber, right at the waterline where it can do the most good.

I just followed your lead.

I just replaced our origional bow sprit. When I was showing the old one to my Son I tapped with a knife and a hole appeared. Yikes!

On the new sprit I moved the rollers near the tip so as to not foul the bob stay when raising or lowering and to accommodate a newer roll bar (manson) anchor.

I cut off the old forestry tang, which is 1/2" SS with two 3/4" holes and welded it onto the bow, attached to the bob stay tang and the hull. I figure I will only be loading one or the other at a time and the extra weldment will make the combined unit stronger.

I have put on two 5/8" shackles and have snubbers attached to each. I will need a boat hook, but that is the price.

Won't get to try this out for a bit yet, late August, but am hopeful it will work well.

[hpeer]

Playing here, lets see if this sketch works.

[model 10]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Playing here, lets see if this sketch works.

Your bob stay is loose

[hpeer]

Taint all thats loose neither!

[gettinthere]

My boat does not have an actual bobstay, as my headsail is not attached to the end of the pulpit. But I do have a rather long pulpit and it is supported by a 1" SS rod.

Could the wire bobstay be replaced by a SS rod or tube? I have 2 hauseholes for the bridle snubber and when sawing back and forth at anchor the bridle does rub against the SS tube with zero effect.