Bruce or CQR

[goboatingnow]

How to get the best from a Bruce or CQR , find a deep anchorage , detach the anchor from the rode, launch the anchor

Having had both types , quite frankly they are the model T of anchors.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Randy

"Well it's not about saving money it's just about what gets the job done."

Thomm, a large part of "the job" of your ground tackle is to allow you to sleep and you've repeatedly said that your gear isn't accomplishing that. So change it, quit second guessing.

I'll probably go ahead and at least replace the rusty chain and rode with the never used galvanized chain and rope rode soon, but the real reason I have trouble sleeping is all the new noises and lack of space.

I'm usually sleeping in a queen size bed at my apartment or home with no other noise except the drone of one box fan.

On the boat, you have the splashing of waves, the rope rode making creaking noises as it moves on the bow, a different fan, wind noises, a smaller crammed settee to sleep on (there's usually more noise in the V Berth) and since I'm usually up at least 4X a night anyway (I'm closer to 70 than 60 and the plumbing just ain't as good as back in the day) I have time to think about the anchor situation as the boat moves all over and turns a least 180 degrees or more over night since there are a couple tide changes.

And these past two times, I've had winds near 20 knots all night. Once in a pretty nice protected spot and the other time taking 2' foot waves. I guessed wrong on the over night winds as it was super light most of the afternoon

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Hello Thomm

Chain should be replaced when the galvanizing has failed because the pitting will not be evenly distributed and there will invariably be some links that are weakened considerably.

I will distill Steve/Panope's many videos and posts to a few of comments for your convenience:

The CQR is completely obsolete as it does not reset well when the direction of pull changes and it has poor holding for its size and weight, and requires excessive scope to be effective.

The Bruce, if not genuine, will likely perform poorly because most copies have seemingly minor differences in geometry that reduce holding to a substantial degree. If a genuine Bruce, you have an anchor that will reset well and hold predictably, but that does not hold particularly well for its size (especially) and weight (to a lesser but still significant degree).

Any of the modern anchors would outperform it, notably the Spade, Super Sarca, Sarca Excel, and Mantus.

Thanks Jammer for the summary but as far as the CQR, my boat usually goes through a couple tide changes every night I'm out. (tide change about every 6 hours here)

This swings the boat at minimum 180 degrees and many times 360 between wind and tide and the anchor has done fine.

I have a couple nice spots where I have much less movement but they are way off the Chesapeake Bay, up another bay, then up a river a ways then to a branch of the river in past where the channel markers end.

After one hard day of sailing a few years ago, I took this video before bed which caused me to paint the entire interior of my boat, and replace the lamps, curtains, settee, sheets, and the dodger. Also replaced the tiller after it broke in half.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWwQ4iUfiyM

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by pcmm

As an aside if you've let your batteries get to 10.7v (FLA) then you've actually damaged them and reduced their life significantly!

Yeah probably. When I went to sleep, they were at close to 13.2 volts. (I run fans all night and the inverter alarm went off. Alarm must have been low voltage. I then switched back to my loud 12 volt fan (12 volt fan in video)

I have two 12 volt so-called dep cycle batteries in parallel so if one isn't charged all the way you can't really tell as the other one may show up better.

I think my old $12 Chinese PWM controller my have failed after about 8 years. My Victron 75/15 MPPT failed after about two years.

I have separated the batteries and am charging them separately as of yesterday afternoon. Both will still run everything separately but how well/long I don't know yet. Right now I'm seeing if they will get to Float which is set at 13.7 volts on my other PWM controller

The plan is to replace them with two 234 ah 6 volt gulf cart batteries after one or both fail. The batteries I have now are from an auto parts store and called deep cycle and are 90 ah each

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TOdSCDHb2s

[Joh.Ghurt]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

How to get the best from a Bruce or CQR , find a deep anchorage , detach the anchor from the rode, launch the anchor

Not true. An even better use is to hit the annoying mother-in-law with it while dropping it.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I'm confused, and now cautious given Jim's remarks. What are you asking? Replace that crappy chain, and get an over-sized new-gen anchor. Why would you even consider a Bruce or CQR when there are better anchors now available?

To answer yours and Jim's question, I plan to use one of the two anchors I have now.

The CQR has always worked except once when I was in a terrible spot and waves started breaking during the night.

The boat was being forced bow first away from the anchor and the rode was holding the boat as it was along the keel to leeward.

I had 2' of water under the boat when the waves started breaking at 2 am. At 3 or so, I took a wave over the side and got drench so I got my glasses on and pants and around this time the anchor started to drag. So I pulled it up and as luck would have it the jib's head strap had broken the night before and it came down and was on the foredeck making things difficult there.

So I used the outboard in the big waves and moved in the total darkness just barely able to make out the rows of fish trap poles that come out into the bay for 100's of yards.

I was at the bridge that separates bay from ocean and had anchored behind a barrier Island just off the channel and close to mud flats.

So I got re-anchored between fish trap poles in 25' of water and slept from 0430 to 0830 then proceeded to get the jib halyard down from the top of the mast which took about 45 minutes using the whip method. The furling swivel was the weight.

[Simi 60]

Besser block for the win

[thomm225]

Btw, to understand many of the spots I anchor in you have to know the bottom.

The marina where I found and purchased my boat is in shallow water. Deep Creek Marina and Boat Yard.

https://activecaptain.garmin.com/en-US/Map

When I put the boat in after purchase, bottom paint and cleanup in 2011, it would be in 2' of water during low tide with the other 2' in the mud so when I got on the boat it never moved.

The boat also sat straight.

Problem was waiting on the high tide to get back in

So many spots here are like that and that is what I was counting on Sunday night as my boat rotated and the wind kept gusting to 20 and above shooting down Back River. I could see the little PVC pipes marking the low water no more than 30 yards to leeward at different time during the night.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Panope

My early test results (6 years ago) of the CQR were indeed poor. However, that anchor was very likely a copy (not genuine).

I have since tested 2 genuine CQR anchors that were in almost NEW condition and the results were much better. Even the RESETS were good. Still not up to the standards of some of the newer anchors, but certainly a decent anchor IN THE SEABEDS THAT I TEST.

I believe these anchors suffer as the hinge wears, thus "opening" the throat angle.

Any of my positive CQR reports will now be accompanied by the words GENUINE and HINGE IN GOOD CONDITION.

Steve

My CQR is genuine and has the patent number on it.

[zeehag]

cqr is a good anchor for those who know how to anchor. bruce is better.
they may be old anchors but the best anchor i have found anywhere is bruce. if oil rigs are secure with bruce we all are... 45 kts winds i can sleep as my bruce with chain holds my formosa well, even in bad holding, is silt over river bottom.
i have watched rocna anchoring fail, ditto manson and delta. it is not the anchor that holds ye, it is the technique. even a danforth will hold when the technique is good.

[MicHughV]

I am a very big Bruce proponent....and have been for 40 years....I love that darned anchor and have never ever had the slightest dragging problem with it...never, not once, in most any kind of bottom. I carry two of them and would never consider changing....not for anything.

Like any anchor, your rode selection is important. For the same 40 years, I use 75' chain, 3/8" high test, followed by nylon rode....5/8"...on all my anchors.

I have experimented with a variety of anchors and chain/nylon combo's and this has proved to work best...for me...it's another thing that will never change on my boat.

Setting your anchor correctly is another art...don't blame your tools, if you are a bad craftsman.

I offer this as what works for me, but anchor selection is a highly personal topic, and every sailor has his/her opinion.

Just wanted to throw a plug in for the much misaligned Bruce....nowadays sold as the knockoff Claw.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by thomm225

To answer yours and Jim's question, I plan to use one of the two anchors I have now.

The CQR has always worked except once when I was in a terrible spot and waves started breaking during the night.

OK, I thought you were going to replace both. I didn't notice the sizings, but my experience is the Bruce (if it's a real Bruce) is a good anchor -- better than the CQR. So if it's well sized for your boat, I'd focus on that one.

You did mention that this is not about money, so again, you'd be better off which just about any of the newer anchors as your bower. But between the two, and assuming proper sizing, I'd go with the Bruce.

BTW, you mention holding in 20-30 knots. Any proper anchor that is used properly should easily do this. For me, I expect my bower arrangement to hold up to near hurricane, so 50 to 60 knots. After that, special arrangements come into place.

[sck5]

If you are in Chesapeake Bay then a Fortress (or other Danforth type) will work quite well in the typical mud bottoms you get there. I used a Rocna for years everywhere from Chesapeake Bay to the Caribbean and it never once dragged or if it did it reset itself before I had to do anything. I actually gave away a CQR the last time I bought a boat and replaced it with the Rocna from my previous boat even though it was lighter than the CQR. The only downside of Rocna type anchors in Chesapeake Bay is the amount of bottom goo that comes up with it. Very useful to have some way to hose it off as it comes up.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by zeehag

cqr is a good anchor for those who know how to anchor. bruce is better.
they may be old anchors but the best anchor i have found anywhere is bruce. if oil rigs are secure with bruce we all are... 45 kts winds i can sleep as my bruce with chain holds my formosa well, even in bad holding, is silt over river bottom.
i have watched rocna anchoring fail, ditto manson and delta. it is not the anchor that holds ye, it is the technique. even a danforth will hold when the technique is good.

Good info Zee.

Haven't seen much from you lately.

I thought you and the cats had moved ashore.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

OK, I thought you were going to replace both. I didn't notice the sizings, but my experience is the Bruce (if it's a real Bruce) is a good anchor -- better than the CQR. So if it's well sized for your boat, I'd focus on that one.

You did mention that this is not about money, so again, you'd be better off which just about any of the newer anchors as your bower. But between the two, and assuming proper sizing, I'd go with the Bruce.

BTW, you mention holding in 20-30 knots. Any proper anchor that is used properly should easily do this. For me, I expect my bower arrangement to hold up to near hurricane, so 50 to 60 knots. After that, special arrangements come into place.

The CQR sort of goes along with my boat selection.......old style full keel (cutaway)

When I was racing beach cats in the 90's, I still (was allowed) hung out with the monohull guys on the dock.

My beach cats were tied down just above high water at our apartment along the bayou there in Pensacola but the hangout for all sailors was the dock.

Many of the boats had CQR's and were usually owned by the most experienced sailors.

Many times these guys would critique every boat and anchor at the dock as we drank "a few" beers.

This bayou (Bayou Grande) was also the local Hurricane Hole so there were usually lots of boats there during the 8-9 hurricanes we had between 1995-2009.

There was lots of talk about which boat would drag during the storm as again we drank beer and observed. Some of the guys had been out helping folks anchor so we would hear all the details even about those that moved the boat out there, tossed the anchor in the water as if taking a lunch break during a sail then leaving the boat.

The problem was the low bridge that seem to always be to leeward at least while we watched. Boats that drug anchor would be dismasted by the bridge then they would go under.

This changed during Cat 5 Ivan in 2004. All boats in the hurricane hole were destroyed by a floating dock that was lifted over it's pilings and took the boats out like a gigantic bowling ball.

The apartment's lower floors were also destroyed and had to be rebuilt

Landings of Pensacola

The pictures show the way the landing apts were before Hurricane Ivan in 2004 (behind me and my Jeep 1999 ) and after they were refurbished in 2005-2006.

Other photos are of boats that had been at anchor piled up at the bridge after Hurricane Ivan and of where the floating docks used to be on Naval Station Pensacola.

In the 90's, you could get a 2 bedroom apartment there for $450/month