Bruce or CQR

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Seeing a different anchor on the bow of my boat other than the trusty CQR will seem very odd if I ever decide to change it.

So it's all about appearance, not what works best
If it's so trusty why are you asking the question?

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

So, Thomm, enlighten us: what is the point of this thread?

You show us photos of decrepit, rusty anchoring gear, complete with two badly rusted but un-moused shackles, you laud this gears performance over a ten year period, yet you contemplate changing to a different setup.

You are apparently not interested in the more or less objective data that Panope has posted on the pros and cons of several anchor designs. You dismiss other cruiser's comments about what constitutes a standard that a cruiser's ground tackle must meet, and in the past you have insisted that setting an anchor is not a part of good practice.

So, what do you want from us? There are plenty of folks on CF with a lot of anchoring experience who are willing to help, but we can't tell how to do it.

It is confusing.

Jim

This ^^^^^^

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Throw your Bruces my way if they're the real deal..
I Luv em..

Well it appears to be a one off Bruce that I have which the OP must have purchased as a backup before his 2 year cruise from Massachusetts to Florida and the Bahamas in 2004-2006.

It's a heavy and wide anchor though which would be good I'm thinking

He must have done the work himself on the rode connection as he had lots of spares for that.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

This ^^^^^^

I like the different points of view.

So far, I'm still staying with my CQR and it's chain and rode but am thinking about either replacing it with the Bruce copy with new chain and rode or staying with the CQR and attaching the new chain and rope rode. The chain is heavier and the rope rode is longer.

Original stuff since 2011 pictured which the PO used.

The chain, rode, and rust though have done a number on my boat. It's starting to look a bit like Sean's old Bristol 27

I added in a picture of Sean's Bruce Anchor which looks quite similar to mine..

Btw, the dock lines are what came with the boat ....

[JPA Cate]

Thomm,

Just my opinion, but that "bruce" you have does not look to me like a genuine Bruce anchor, and as such, super conservative old me would reject it out of hand, because the bruce knockoffs just have a poor reputation. We had one for a while, and got rid of ours for our Manson Supreme, years ago, now. Try your knockoff some time, when you want to make the experiment, and see how it goes. I bet you go back to your genuine CQR.

We had a CQR knockoff with our previous boat. Even it held in good holding at 55 kn. But it was a bear to get to set, and failed in a number of bottoms, which was why it yielded to the genuine Bruce that we used to have. [When we changed to this boat, we needed bigger, heavier anchors.]

If you ever decide to go to a modern generation anchor, it will do you better service, and in a greater variety of bottoms. Probably, you'd be very pleased.

Ann

[dfelsent]

Agree that the “Bruce” does not look genuine.
I’ve regularly used (and perhaps dragged) at least CQR, Bruce, claw, delta, danforth, fortress, Luke, and spade. Plus miscellaneous crap in odd situations.
I’m a spade fan these days. And I carry a fortress as a secondary.
Thick weed over mud is always an interesting substrate.
Get past the weed and it’s all good.
Piled boulders is another interesting bottom. Rig a trip line.
Good thick mud? Any of the above will work well.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Panope

Steve

You do excellent anchor test videos . Thank you for doing the work for us all.

I am anxiously awaiting your veer testing of the 35# cqr as that is one of my primary anchors on the 29 defender .

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I like the different points of view.

So far, I'm still staying with my CQR and it's chain and rode but am thinking about either replacing it with the Bruce copy with new chain and rode or staying with the CQR and attaching the new chain and rope rode. The chain is heavier and the rope rode is longer.

Original stuff since 2011 pictured which the PO used.

The chain, rode, and rust though have done a number on my boat. It's starting to look a bit like Sean's old Bristol 27

I added in a picture of Sean's Bruce Anchor which looks quite similar to mine..

Btw, the dock lines are what came with the boat ....

If that is what your gear still looks like it does need replaced.
In my opinion if the CQR is a real CQR use it and save the Bruce for a stern anchor. .

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by thomm225

So after another night in a narrow spot with maybe 50 yards of space before the depth went to 2' ( I draw 4') with winds near 20 knots most of the night, I was thinking maybe I should replace my rusty chain and possibly use the one off Bruce anchor that came with the boat (along with the CQR on the bow).

The CQR has held in 20 - 30 knots with onshore winds and 2'-3' waves so it has been a good anchor..

The chain attached to the Bruce is heavier and maybe 40' and has never been used nor has the rope rode.

This last time I was in protected waters and went in close to get out of the waves but the wind was still shooting thru there and I was in so close I had very little space as the boat turned circles with the tide.

It gives you things to consider at 11, 12, 1 am, 2am, and 3am as you continue to wakeup with the rope rode stretching and moving on the bow.

Thomm, I think you are taking quite a chance with your ground tackle:
A worn CQR, rusty chain, doubtful shackles, and a dodgy fake Bruce.

I think your instincts were right to keep you up all night.

Despite the views of so many other cruisers (and the Panope videos) I still love my 20KG Bruce and my 30KG Bruce (storm anchor). I don't doubt the test results, but I love my Bruce.

I had a CQR (not genuine) and it dragged all up and down the West Coast. Since I got the Bruce (in 1997) it's been excellent.

It looks like your choice of anchoring spots in the Chesapeake are not great. so I recommend you get a new anchor and a new rode and stop taking chances. And if you are determined to use what you have, put the best rode on the CQR which you have had luck with and don't use that Bruce, it doesn't look right.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Thomm,

Just my opinion, but that "bruce" you have does not look to me like a genuine Bruce anchor, and as such, super conservative old me would reject it out of hand, because the bruce knockoffs just have a poor reputation. We had one for a while, and got rid of ours for our Manson Supreme, years ago, now. Try your knockoff some time, when you want to make the experiment, and see how it goes. I bet you go back to your genuine CQR.

We had a CQR knockoff with our previous boat. Even it held in good holding at 55 kn. But it was a bear to get to set, and failed in a number of bottoms, which was why it yielded to the genuine Bruce that we used to have. [When we changed to this boat, we needed bigger, heavier anchors.]

If you ever decide to go to a modern generation anchor, it will do you better service, and in a greater variety of bottoms. Probably, you'd be very pleased.

Ann

Thanks Ann.

I may end up just switching the CQR over to the newer, heavier chain and rode especially before I repaint the bow and forward topsides of my boat.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Thomm, I think you are taking quite a chance with your ground tackle:
A worn CQR, rusty chain, doubtful shackles, and a dodgy fake Bruce.

I think your instincts were right to keep you up all night.

Despite the views of so many other cruisers (and the Panope videos) I still love my 20KG Bruce and my 30KG Bruce (storm anchor). I don't doubt the test results, but I love my Bruce.

I had a CQR (not genuine) and it dragged all up and down the West Coast. Since I got the Bruce (in 1997) it's been excellent.

It looks like your choice of anchoring spots in the Chesapeake are not great. so I recommend you get a new anchor and a new rode and stop taking chances. And if you are determined to use what you have, put the best rode on the CQR which you have had luck with and don't use that Bruce, it doesn't look right.

Yeah I'll probably switch to the newer chain and rode and continue with the CQR which is a 20 lb'er.

There's a 25 lb CQR for sale online but too far away that looks to have been used very little.

I'll continue to monitor Craigslist for another CQR or something better.

I was anchored in a good spot last weekend so far in that I was just inside and a bit further in than Back River Channel Light marker 25. Just the number tells you something but the wind was still shooting through there. During the night at times I would be facing the blinking green channel light itself and at other times others depending on wind and tide. And there wasn't a lot of space to drag without running aground.

I went thru at least two tide rotations but after 7 hours and the first rotation I figured I was good but still checked every time I woke up (every 30 minutes to 1 hour)

It wasn't rough though since I was in so close but the wind was being forced down the channel which I was anchored just off of.

i-Boating : Free Marine Navigation Charts & Fishing Maps

the worsted places I have anchored are near Kiptopeke (Fisherman's Island and Smith's Beach which can be totally exposed depending on the wind but sometimes quite nice.

Old video is Smith's Beach on a good Day (Easterly to SE wind. If the wind swings around to SW, it can be very rough like it was two weeks ago with 2' -3' waves) The wind swung around SW and came up after dark.....

Picture of Kiptopeke on a good day. I will move up close to the sunken ship and re-anchor before dark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBwFOdJemV4

[Yellowtulip]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

So, Thomm, enlighten us: what is the point of this thread?

You show us photos of decrepit, rusty anchoring gear, complete with two badly rusted but un-moused shackles, you laud this gears performance over a ten year period, yet you contemplate changing to a different setup.

You are apparently not interested in the more or less objective data that Panope has posted on the pros and cons of several anchor designs. You dismiss other cruiser's comments about what constitutes a standard that a cruiser's ground tackle must meet, and in the past you have insisted that setting an anchor is not a part of good practice.

So, what do you want from us? There are plenty of folks on CF with a lot of anchoring experience who are willing to help, but we can't tell how to do it.

It is confusing.

Jim

I think he just wants to chat.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Yellowtulip

I think he just wants to chat.

Pretty much every sailor wants to chat about sailing I thought or anything having to do with sailing.

I also enjoy seeing the view points while knowing my anchor and gear is fine, but the rusty chain is staining my foredeck and rope rode so I removed it today. I do have some topside paint left though so will put a bit of that on soon.

Main bow CQR Anchor chain and rope rode will be replaced. Luckily for me, the PO left onboard a 5 gallon bucket and I have the chain in there so I can size it for replacement on my backup Bruce knockoff and it will stop staining and leaving bits of rust on the foredeck.

I was quite surprised that I could undo the shackles with an adjustable wrench and channel locks so they weren't that rusted and I'll probably use those again. (earlier photo of the really rusted one was what I used from 2011-2019 at my worst anchorages where onshore waves were breaking over the bow at 2am)

I was a beginner at anchoring overnight while sleeping back then even though I've had boats since the early 70's.

Next will be to vacuum the rust bits out of the chain/rode locker and install the larger chain, and new rode onto the CQR.

I think I will though move up to a 25 lb CQR when I can find one close by to replace my worn 20 lb'er.

Point is the genuine CQR is the anchor I will go with so I did totally determine that from the inputs in this thread a few of which were very informative.

Old rope rode is about 250' and new is around 300' both of which came with the boat that I got for $2,000. (estate sale)

Next up will be the two 6 volt 220 ah golf cart deep cycle batteries that I'll use to replace the 12 volt so-called deep cycle batteries I got from Auto world/zone/advanced that I have destroyed over the last few years running computers, inverter, fans autopilot etc some of which run all night at anchor.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Pretty much every sailor wants to chat about sailing I thought or anything having to do with sailing.

Yeah, That's what I like to do also. I just wander down the dock and see what's happening. Talk to whomever is around. If they are working and are good friends, I harrass them a bit about how they're doing it wrong.

Not too many people on the dock these days, so CF is a good substitute.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Yeah, That's what I like to do also. I just wander down the dock and see what's happening. Talk to whomever is around. If they are working and are good friends, I harrass them a bit about how they're doing it wrong.

Not too many people on the dock these days, so CF is a good substitute.

Funny.


I took a different "tack" on this thread.


I went out sailing, after being "tempted" to make an inopportune and/or trying to be pithy comment on thomm's OP before I left.


Given what happened on this one since I returned, I'm really glad I behaved myself (for a change ).


But really, after everything's that been written and with Steve's real world testing, it continues to amaze me that anyone would trust their boats and their lives to archaic technology, things that were good in their time but have been surpassed by advances in reality.


Simply seems to me that if I had a choice between "new gen" anchors that have proven to work and are actually lighter for the same holding capacity compared to the old styles that require more weight, I'd choose the former, especially on a small cruising vessel.



But, gosh, I plumb forgot all those thousands of repetitive posts (and videos, on my gosh!) by thomm25 about his glorious anchor system. Now that we've been able to see the rusted hulk that it was, we are all grateful for thomm for sharing the underwater details.


And that he is safe.


Good luck, thomm, hauling a much heavier anchor that you really don't need to do.


Fascinating.
My answer to the OP question: neither. Get a Rocna or any other new gen anchor. Lighter for the same holding and easier on your back.