Chafe protection for dock and snubber lines

[FSMike]

Originally Posted by fjwiley1

Fire Hose ---- Before use,Remove the inner rubber. ----

Works for me.

[chouliha]

Fire hose has changed in the past 10 years. We started out years ago with a roll of double layered outside like a heavy heavy canvas and a rubber inside. These types of hoses would rot and always need to be stretched out to dry. We would usually get 2 years out of a piece on our snubber. Sometime since we left on this trip the firehouses are now using a more synthetic hose that does not rot and is extremely durable. Maybe some fire folks can comment.

There is usually 1 firehouse in a city that is designated as a station that damaged hose is sent to for repair, etc. It's these type of firehouses that usually have tons of scraps lying around. In San Diego it is the station near Home Depot / Sports arena. They would always be happy to let us root around in their scrap pile and take whatever we wanted. I would always bring them a box of donuts or a fruit plate etc. for the kindness they showed me.

Since we switched to the newer style hose (yellow) it's a huge improvement and much stronger regarding chafe. Plus it's easier to store in a smaller diameter spool. We have been using this newer hose for about 5 years now and it works great. We have it on all our dock lines. So far we have been happy with the firehouse as chafe gear and have been using it for more than 30 years.

Cheers

Chuck
Jacaranda






Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

For snubbing lines, Brait might be a bit better choice. It's an 8-strand line, purposely designed for anchoring, & mooring apps, & to be VERY energy absorbent for just such uses. http://www.apsltd.com/c-1565-nylon-brait-yale.aspx

This is the variety of rope that chafed so bad on my dock lines. I love it because of how it handles but won't use it without a serious chafe guard.

Regarding the heat vs. stretching thing, you can try using Regatta Braid, for your standard connection line type. It's a Dacron single braid with a good bit of stretch to it, especially compared to other things Dacron. http://www.teufelberger.com/en/products/marine/new-england-ropes/cruising/regatta-braid.html

I have some of this and it doesn't seen to handle abrasion very well.

And of course the "Ultimate” mooring connection lines are ropes such as Polydyne, & Polydyne II, etc. - Rope blends which were created/designed specifically for/to be storm mooring pendants. http://www.defender.com/category.jsp?path=-1|2276108&id=2226886

Thanks for the tip on this. I had not run across it before. It looks like is for snubbing loads from a nylon mooring connection as it does not stretch at all. Pretty pricy!

On the higher wear areas of your lines, consider coating/painting them with Maxi-Jacket, or Maxi-Jacket II. It's pretty much the same as the slippery coating which comes on high-modulus, single braid lines. Said compounds are formulated to enhance abrasion, & UV resistance. http://www.yalecordage.com/pleasure-marine-ropes/coatings.html
Albeit, you may wish to split a bottle of this stuff with a few folks on your dock/sailing friends, as most of the sizes available are expensive (albeit, far cheaper than purchasing new dock lines all of the time) http://www.apsltd.com/c-1631-yale-maxi-jacket.aspx

I have not seen any tests of these coatings. I would have to research this some more to see if the kind of abrasion they protect against is to the extreme of mooring and dock lines.

The next option to look at are the many varieties of "cover only", rope jacket material/sleeves, which are purpose designed for chafe protection. Specifically, sleeves made out of such materials as; Spectra, Nomex, Kevlar, etc. And there are larger sizes produced than just what’s seen here http://www.apsltd.com/c-1569-coveronly.aspx

The largest inside diameter of these covers that I have found is 16mm which is just about the size of a 5/8" rope. So it could only fit over a 1/2" or smaller line. Too small. I think they would be great otherwise.

You can also "recycle" the covers found on other, large lines which are well past middle age. As you only need a few feet of them in a given locale on a mooring line (for chafe protection).

I don't think they would give the abrasion resistance I need but would certainly be less expensive. One test I found shows covers of new material like this to be little better than no cover.

Also, there are the Heavy Duty & Professional Grade line cover resources, some of which are found in other (similar fields) such as this following:
Arborist type Rigging Equipment sources http://www.bartlettman.com and in other fields, like... Fire & Outdoor Rescue gear.For instance www.CMCRescue.com

I have looked at several of these types of sites. I was in search and rescue in previous lives and rope protection is a serious issue. Most of this gear is not meant to be exposed to the elements, e.g. vinyl covered webbing. Some of it might work but pricey.

Plus, New England Ropes offerings too. http://www.neropes.com/Interim%20Page%20Alternate.html
As well as those by Samson Ropes - http://samsonrope.com/Pages/ChafeProtection.aspx

And, obviously, push come to shove, it rarely hurts to go straight to the (rope) manufacturers. http://samsonrope.com/Pages/Default.aspx
http://www.yalecordage.com/
http://neropes.com/Interim%20Page%20Alternate.html

One other idea would be to have your sailmaker sew some custom Spectra anti-chafe sleeves from some of the wider widths of Spectra Webbing.

Excellent thought. The largest Spectra size I have found so far is 1 3/4", which is really too small. Would have to look in to the abrasion resistance but it is very tough.


PS: Just because PVC hose comes from the factory as an impermeable tube doesn't mean that it has to stay that way. I haven't done any tests, & statistical analysis on this. But with some decent sized holes cut or melted into it in a number of spots other than on/in very close to the primary chafe point, I'd imagine that the nylon rope inside of it would stay at a more manageable temp. Especially between water falling out of the sky, & or via repeated soakings by waves.
It's just a thought.

My real issue with PVC hose is what happens to it when it gets hot when worked hard, and how quickly it degrades in sunlight and exposure. It is hard to run through chocks, especially if there is any load.

Thanks for the excellent list. I will check in to some of this as noted.

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by chouliha

Fire hose has changed in the past 10 years. We started out years ago with a roll of double layered outside like a heavy heavy canvas and a rubber inside. These types of hoses would rot and always need to be stretched out to dry. We would usually get 2 years out of a piece on our snubber. Sometime since we left on this trip the firehouses are now using a more synthetic hose that does not rot and is extremely durable. Maybe some fire folks can comment.

There is usually 1 firehouse in a city that is designated as a station that damaged hose is sent to for repair, etc. It's these type of firehouses that usually have tons of scraps lying around. In San Diego it is the station near Home Depot / Sports arena. They would always be happy to let us root around in their scrap pile and take whatever we wanted. I would always bring them a box of donuts or a fruit plate etc. for the kindness they showed me.

Since we switched to the newer style hose (yellow) it's a huge improvement and much stronger regarding chafe. Plus it's easier to store in a smaller diameter spool. We have been using this newer hose for about 5 years now and it works great. We have it on all our dock lines. So far we have been happy with the firehouse as chafe gear and have been using it for more than 30 years.
Chuck
Jacaranda

Hi Chuck, still following your blog on your adventures. Hope to see you some day south on our new boat.

Our little town has only one fire station and evidently they don't get rid of their hose, surprisingly. I did find fire hose available on the web at a good price as I noted in a post above and it is on its way. I think I am sold on it for its durability, price, ease of handling, ease of storage, adaptability, etc. Thanks for your comments on it. I will look into the yellow hose. They had it on the site so I will revisit that. It makes no sense to go with a lower quality when the price diff is not that great.

Thanks - Joe & Cindy

[chouliha]

Joe one of the things we did a couple seasons ago based on Evans great posts regarding snubbers on this forum was to buy a piece of Dynema not sure on the spelling. We used this piece between the windlass and just over the bow roller where we then attached our 3 strand snubber to it. This stops all the chafe and in a lumpy anchorage it stopped the squeaking as the line ran thru the chafe gear. Made sleeping in the v berth much quieter. So now we don't use any chafe gear for the day to day snubber. The stretch still happens by using the 3 strand but it all happens off the boat.

Another great thing I learned from this group!

Glad the "cure for insomnia" is still working (blog)

Chuck


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by chouliha

Joe one of the things we did a couple seasons ago based on Evans great posts regarding snubbers on this forum was to buy a piece of Dynema not sure on the spelling. We used this piece between the windlass and just over the bow roller where we then attached our 3 strand snubber to it. This stops all the chafe and in a lumpy anchorage it stopped the squeaking as the line ran thru the chafe gear. Made sleeping in the v berth much quieter. So now we don't use any chafe gear for the day to day snubber. The stretch still happens by using the 3 strand but it all happens off the boat.

Another great thing I learned from this group!

Thanks again for the followup. I had tried to do my "due diligence" and search on snubbers but missed the old thread somehow. I like the solution that Evans put together with Dyneema and the single-braided line as a shocker absorber. I'm not too thrilled at having to put out the entire length of the snubber in to the water every time since that is more line to clean of slime and "hair" in warmer waters. I supposed I could either have two snubbers, one longer than the other.

I did just look up the tugboat hitch he suggests to prevent the Dyneema from slipping off of the deck cleats or posts. It looks like it is only usable for posts and not cleats, or if it can be used on cleats the how is not immediately obvious to me. Having the Dyneema slip would be a big problem. I could use the Dyneema with a polyester cover I suppose.

I very much like the idea of the "soft shackle" instead of a chain hook. I have had terrible times with chain hooks and all the variations like the Seadog hook plate. Mantis has what looks like a workable chain connector but the soft shackle has the advantage of its ability to come over the roller when retrieving the and laying out the chain rode. I could put on a slip knot but it's possible to do it wrong at night or in weather or just because I have a brain fart.

Really, really great to get all these suggestions from those actually out there where the hull meets the blue water. Great forum!

See Evans post and other comments here: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...3-a-110974.htm

[barnakiel]

I would go the fire hose way too. Seen a fine diameter fire hose used in NZ. Looked super strong and good fit for mooring / anchor lines.

b.

[UNCIVILIZED]

On your chafing gear, you can always just either punch a small hole into it, or attach a small D-ring to it, & then tie or splice a piece of 3mm - 5mm cord to same. And either attach the chafing gear tether to the vessel, or to the rode.


PS: You're more than welcome for the (semi) comprehensive list of anti-chafing gear & products.

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

On your chafing gear, you can always just either punch a small hole into it, or attach a small D-ring to it, & then tie or splice a piece of 3mm - 5mm cord to same. And either attach the chafing gear tether to the vessel, or to the rode.

I like what you say here. I have done that in the past and it makes it easy to adjust. I have already ordered some firehose to use. Even if I go with the Dyneema as suggested by Evans I would still want to use additional chafe protection like the firehose. I think that Jacaranda is doing that.

[chouliha]

Nope I don't use any chafe gear on the current snubber. If it gets into storm force conditions I have another snubber I would install and that does have the firehouse for chafe. After about 180 days of being on the hook in Panama both the Perlas, Western Panama and Panama City I have seen ZERO chafe on the Dynema line. I have been using a rolling hitch to attach the 3 strand to the chain and that has been great for the past 18 years. Comes over the roller with no problem. Previous to that I struggled with various chain hooks for many years.

Chuck


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[exMaggieDrum]

Good info. My plan is to make the snubber as Evan and you have described and try and leave the chafe gear off and see how it goes. Like you say, I an always put on the additional chafe gear if conditions warrant. Using the chafe gear is definitely a pain in the rear.

I will try the rolling hitch and the soft shackle and see which works for me.

Thanks to all for the great ideas.

[Beldridge14]

Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum

This is a common topic but still hoping for that magic bullet. I can't find a magic solution for protecting my dock lines and anchor snubber lines. I have decided not to go with vinyl water hose. I bought some fancy velcro protection from Taylor-made but it is expensive and the interior velcro makes a mess of the line it grips. They are not as long as I would like and impossible to move once on the line without taking the line out of the chock.

I have tried to find old firehose but our local firehouse rarely replaces their hoses (despite everyone saying that is where they got there hoses). This fire department has hoses from 1982 - go figure. I like the idea of the rugged canvas cover over the rubber.

It looks like dyneema cover material would work for small line but it only goes up to 16mm which is way too small for moving around on even a 1/2" line. I have seen a comparison test with just tubular webbing used for protection but it seems to wear quickly.

So - anyone have any other ideas? Does anyone know where I can get firehoses?

I have a friend that has a lot of used fire hose, different sizes and colors for all types uses, docks, lines. Email beldridge14@yahoo.com.