Chain length

[Talbot]

One thing that nobody has discussed is (where possible) a desire to be able to manually recover your chain and rope combo if something goes wrong with the electric winch. I know that the size of some of the cats owned by some of the posters on here precludes meeting this requirement, but my 9m catalac was within the parameters. When I originally purchased her, she had abt 60m of 5/16" chain. I changed this to 30m of 3/8" and the characteristics at anchor changed dramatically. I was still able (just) to recover manually (provided the anchor had not dug itself halfway to china) but even in bad weather - and the catalac has a lot of windage, I felt really secure, and behaviour calmed as well.

[Sandero]

That would be a manual crank... ICK at the thought of it. I don't even recall if mine does have a manual crank! hmmmmmmmmmmmm

jef
sv shiva

[craigsmith]

Originally Posted by Therapy

OK, got it.

For a Gemini I would pick a 10 Kg. model.
(I live in Florida and would find a nice little spot to leave it in a hurricane - go up one size??)

Sorry Therapy I don't know what Gemini you have... if, given the LOA and displacement, our chart says you want a 6, then you go one up to the 10.

Our sizing is calculated based on 50 knots wind, considerable surge, and poor holding. Cat 1 hurricane it'll be fine. Anything worse, if poor holding or exposed anchorage, start over-sizing to be safe.

Originally Posted by Therapy

I still want 100 ft of chain.
But that does not mean that 60ft would be just fine.
I would need advice.

Consider the rode independently to the anchor. The rode's job is to give the anchor its best chance, doesn't matter if the anchor's an undersized brick or an oversized Rocna. As you've seen from this thread the answer to "how much chain" depends on the cruising ground and intended use. For a cat there is an additional factor: you can usually scale the chain down, if the anchorages allow it, because you can get into more shallow water. If you can always anchor in less than 3' water, and even if your bow roller is 3' off the water, that means all your chain deployed still gives you 10:1 scope.

So maybe you don't even need that much. The question becomes, do you have a good reason for needing 100'? If you do, and you also want to minimize weight, start looking at high tensile sizing.

Originally Posted by Therapy

I am obviously missing something.

This is in the post describing exactly what to do.

For a bridle you can make a single loop from say a port cleat outboard and across the bow to the stbd cleat (the whole thing can be Dacron) and use a Prusic hitch from the center of the loop to the rode. You can middle a length of snubber and attach it at the middling point to the bridle center and lead both ends to the rode if you want. It will work fine.

In my mind, the bridle would have to be put on the rode with this knot and then the bitter ends fed outboard and back to the cleats on each hull. I don't get it.

The bridle is set-up ready outward before you attach the main rode at the position you want, after deploying it and setting the anchor. Explain specifically what you don't get?

[mark_morwood]

Originally Posted by Therapy

I am obviously missing something.

In my mind, the bridle would have to be put on the rode with this knot and then the bitter ends fed outboard and back to the cleats on each hull. I don't get it.

We typically use a bridle on the chain but the process is about the same, we just use a chain grabber rather than a rolling hitch. Our process is:

1. Set the anchor using normal process. Once we are holding ...
2. Attach the legs of the bridal to the bow cleats
3. Attach the center of the bridle to the rode at the crossbeam
4. Let out more rode (with the bridle attached) until the bridal takes the load.

Our bridle consists of two legs shackled to a chain grabber. For rope, you might consider splicing the two legs onto a single short line that you tie with a rolling hitch on to the rode.

Mark.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by craigsmith

Sorry Therapy I don't know what Gemini you have... if, given the LOA and displacement, our chart says you want a 6, then you go one up to the 10.

Our sizing is calculated based on 50 knots wind, considerable surge, and poor holding. Cat 1 hurricane it'll be fine. Anything worse, if poor holding or exposed anchorage, start over-sizing to be safe.

Sorry, the Gemini is one size - 33ft. 9k lbs empty.
I have not been told what the max weight is even though I have asked.

The bridle is set-up ready outward before you attach the main rode at the position you want, after deploying it and setting the anchor. Explain specifically what you don't get?

I am having trouble with this.
Lets see.
OK, here goes - I am anchoring.
The bridle is set up on both hull cleats.
It is led outboard from each hull and the center of the loop is brought back through the anchor roller where I am at the anchor.
I let the anchor (and chain) out.
I let more out and am now into the rope rode.
I decide that all is well and the anchor is set properly.
Now I want to attach the bridle to the rode.
How, specifically do I attach the bridle to the rode?

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by mark_morwood

we just use a chain grabber




with a rolling hitch on to the rode.

Mark.

With either is there a chance that they will come undone if boisterous conditions while unattended?

[craigsmith]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Sorry, the Gemini is one size - 33ft. 9k lbs empty.
I have not been told what the max weight is even though I have asked.

Then we recommend the Rocna 15.

Originally Posted by Therapy

I am having trouble with this.
Lets see.
OK, here goes - I am anchoring.
The bridle is set up on both hull cleats.
It is led outboard from each hull and the center of the loop is brought back through the anchor roller where I am at the anchor.
I let the anchor (and chain) out.
I let more out and am now into the rope rode.
I decide that all is well and the anchor is set properly.
Now I want to attach the bridle to the rode.
How, specifically do I attach the bridle to the rode?

The bridle is not necessarily a single rope. It can be two legs attached to a third length, as described above. Use a chain ring or something as the joiner. The free end of the third length then gets tied to the main rode.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by craigsmith

Then we recommend the Rocna 15.


The bridle is not necessarily a single rope. It can be two legs attached to a third length, as described above. Use a chain ring or something as the joiner. The free end of the third length then gets tied to the main rode.

OK, thanks.

I just think it is a bunch of screwin around but if the rope to chain works also then that would be the standard set up.

I don't have the boat yet but I sure am planning the steps after I get one so I can leave sooner rather than later.

Thanks again.

[colemj]

Therapy,

See my description in this thread:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...dles-7661.html

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by colemj

Therapy,

See my description in this thread:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...dles-7661.html

Thanks.

That sounds like a lot less screwin around.

The chafe issue on the rode would be minimal since it changes each time the boat is anchored?

[colemj]

Yes, I have never noticed any chafe - probably because the mounting point changes like you mention and also because the shackle and hook are smooth, round edges that don't really move any on the rode.

[Islandmike]

I posted my reply before reading the first post, sorry I have a mono. However, I did put in +120 if you want to remove. Again Sorry.

[over40pirate]

Boy, talk about opinions. Everyone has one.

The first 3 yeas cruising with a 35' sailboat, I used 20' of 3/8 chain. Kept a second 20' length for storms. I would replace it every few years as it started rusting and staining the decks, and 20' isn't that much money.

After Hurricane Andrew, I had an insurance claim for minor damage, and found 2- 15' lengths of 3/8" stainless chain for $100, and splurged on it. For the next 3 years or so, I used the 15' with no problems. Granted must of my anchoring was in Fl and the bahamas with not much rock bottom, or coral to worry about cutting the rode.
Contrary to popular beliefs, places you anchor in the Bahamas don't have much coral, if any, and it's easy to see and avoid anchoring near.

My opinion, is that a lot of Nylon 3 strand is great at absorbing loads when anchoring, and "in my opinion is better than all chain, even with a snubber"

if I started from scratch and had a good windlass for chain, I would use 30 - 50' of chain, then nylon. That way when anchoring you don't have to worry about rigging a snubber (a pain in the but).

Just my opinion.