Chain size?

[Gregthompson]

We have a Nilsson Maxwell V700 windlass. We have the original manual. The windlass was offered with different gypsy wheels. Ours has 105 cast into it. Does anyone know how I would find what size chain to use? Windlass is on a 1984 Sabre 38. Displacement is about 16,000 lbs

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Greg.


Apparently, Maxwell didn’t think owners were up to the task of matching chain to wheel (gypsy).
➥ Chain Wheel Selection Guide

See item (6) on page 3.
➥ http://www.barrleonard.com/Literatur...structions.pdf

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Greg.


Apparently, Maxwell didn’t think owners were up to the task of matching chain to wheel (gypsy).
➥ Chain Wheel Selection Guide

See item (6) on page 3.
➥ http://www.barrleonard.com/Literatur...structions.pdf

Well. That's pretty annoying. As you say, Maxwell must think their customers are pretty incompetent.

Seeing there's a lack of information and support from the maker, unless some other forum member has broken the code, the only options I see are figure it out. If you have a guess on the approximate size chain one option is to buy a 12" piece of chain and run it around the gypsy to see if it fits. Or you could try measuring the chain pockets in the gypsy to get an idea of links per foot to narrow down the choices.

By the way, links per foot is the most important dimension in getting a chain to fit properly in the windlass. In case the OP doesn't already know this, the links/ft of 3/8" BBB are very different from 3/8" HT chain so you can't go on the measure of size metal used to make the links. I went through this process and discovered 3/8" BBB and 5/16" HT had almost identical links/ft and either would work just find in my windlass.

[GordMay]

Perhaps the “Maxwell Chainwheel Guide spreadsheet” provides useful information.
I don’t have MS “Office” (XLS) so can’t download it.
Bottom of this page: Chain Wheel Selection Guide

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Well. That's pretty annoying. As you say, Maxwell must think their customers are pretty incompetent.

Seeing there's a lack of information and support from the maker, unless some other forum member has broken the code, the only options I see are figure it out. If you have a guess on the approximate size chain one option is to buy a 12" piece of chain and run it around the gypsy to see if it fits. Or you could try measuring the chain pockets in the gypsy to get an idea of links per foot to narrow down the choices.

By the way, links per foot is the most important dimension in getting a chain to fit properly in the windlass. In case the OP doesn't already know this, the links/ft of 3/8" BBB are very different from 3/8" HT chain so you can't go on the measure of size metal used to make the links. I went through this process and discovered 3/8" BBB and 5/16" HT had almost identical links/ft and either would work just find in my windlass.

Having just recently been through this exercise myself. I can vouch there are a number of traps for the uninitated.

Firstly I wanted to rebuild my old Maxwell Nilsson windlasss and up grade to bigger chain and a msnual crank kit.

Of course they no longer make most of the parts so they talked me into a new one. Ok fine.

Then the real fun began. Chain and Gypsy matching. So they requested I send a 1 ft sample of the chain I intended to use.

So after a visit to my local fisheries supply asking for a sample of 3/8" BBB.

So after Nilsson receive it some weeks later they tell me it doesnt fit any of their gypsies. Doh

Strike one.

Ok so I ask what normally happens in these case.

Take aways from the number of back and forth emails.

Most of the world is Metric and getting more so. So for people cruising long distance this might be a consideration.

Ok so I go and get another length of 10mm chain to send.

Strike 2. Doesnt fit either, Doh.

Even within a nominal listed size there is a lot of variation especially from China originated.

Better to measure yourself with some digital verniers, or take your gypsy to check chain before you buy it.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Q Xopa

Having just recently been through this exercise myself. I can vouch there are a number of traps for the uninitated.

Firstly I wanted to rebuild my old Maxwell Nilsson windlasss and up grade to bigger chain and a msnual crank kit.

Of course they no longer make most of the parts so they talked me into a new one. Ok fine.

Then the real fun began. Chain and Gypsy matching. So they requested I send a 1 ft sample of the chain I intended to use.

So after a visit to my local fisheries supply asking for a sample of 3/8" BBB.

So after Nilsson receive it some weeks later they tell me it doesnt fit any of their gypsies. Doh

Strike one.

Ok so I ask what normally happens in these case.

Take aways from the number of back and forth emails.

Most of the world is Metric and getting more so. So for people cruising long distance this might be a consideration.

Ok so I go and get another length of 10mm chain to send.

Strike 2. Doesnt fit either, Doh.

Even within a nominal listed size there is a lot of variation especially from China originated.

Better to measure yourself with some digital verniers, or take your gypsy to check chain before you buy it.

I must say I find it completely bizarre, almost unbelievable that Maxwell cannot simple tell a customer that their gypsy, part number ABC123 or whatever it is, is made to fit US 3/8"BBB or DIN 9mm or whatever.

So where is this variation you refer to, in the chain or the gypsy? If the variation is in the chain then time to got to a different brand of chain. My experience going through this is that good quality chain (as in any chain you want to trust your boat to) is very consistent in size. If the variation is in the gypsy from Maxwell so essentially each gypsy has to be custom matched to a certain chain then I would look at another windlass supplier.

[skipmac]

Another thought, why is the Maxwell so sensitive to chain size? My boat came with an old Simpson Lawrence windlass, two anchors with two different sized chains. After some research and education on chain, chain specs, chain markings and measuring what I had I was able to confirm that one chain was 3/8"BBB and the other 5/16" G4/HT. Both worked perfectly in the gypsy.

Further research and measurements I determined that the two chains were very slightly different in specs. If I recall one was 11 links/ft an the other 10.8 or 11.2 or something about a tenth or two different. I did test a chain that was 10 links/foot and it would not work. Links jumped the pockets when I tried it. However, from my testing a +/- 2% variation in link length was not a problem at all.

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by skipmac

I must say I find it completely bizarre, almost unbelievable that Maxwell cannot simple tell a customer that their gypsy, part number ABC123 or whatever it is, is made to fit US 3/8"BBB or DIN 9mm or whatever.

So where is this variation you refer to, in the chain or the gypsy? If the variation is in the chain then time to got to a different brand of chain. My experience going through this is that good quality chain (as in any chain you want to trust your boat to) is very consistent in size. If the variation is in the gypsy from Maxwell so essentially each gypsy has to be custom matched to a certain chain then I would look at another windlass supplier.

Variation was in Chains. What they use and try and pass off as their quality chain. This was in Panama, but seems to be getting more common.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Q Xopa

Variation was in Chains. What they use and try and pass off as their quality chain. This was in Panama, but seems to be getting more common.

Maxwell selling the chain under their name or just the brand of chain sold by the local Maxwell dealer? And they can't get the chain and the windlass to match? Am I confused or missing something here?

[Gregthompson]

GREGORY THOMPSON <gregory.thompson@fpsk12.net>
9:32 AM (6 hours ago)
to Cruisers

First, thanks to all for the thoughtful responses. I think the links/ft calculation is critical. I did measure the size of the indentations and have an engineer friend helping. Not sure if I can afford the rum I will owe him if we solve the puzzle. I spoke with Nilsson in NZ yesterday and they said they thought the person who might be able to help would be in today. Gave them schematics with original drawings from Maxwell Nilsson. Sure hoping they might just have a chain size for the gypsy with what looks like a size number in the casting (105)

The previous owner had the wrong chain for our gypsy so trying to use Maxwell's chain measuring dimensions is useless. It would be great if someone out there has a late 80's Maxwell Nilsson with the same gypsy (105) and a chain size. I will still have to match it carefully but at least I can buy a couple of feet to check rather than a pail full. Thanks again to for all of the answers

Greg T.

[bstreep]

I have a Nilsson Maxwell 3000 that just came off of our boat. We wanted to change chain size, and the cast base needed replacement, so we opted for a "mostly" drop in Maxwell 3500 on sale at Defender. It was going to cost over $1K to fix a 29 year old windlass. If there's anything you need from ours, let me know. It has a 3/8" BBB gypsy. I'll see if I can get a number off of it later today.

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Maxwell selling the chain under their name or just the brand of chain sold by the local Maxwell dealer? And they can't get the chain and the windlass to match? Am I confused or missing something here?

The local suppliers of chain here in Panama use mostly cheap carp chain. I guess the local suppliers dont stock 'quality' chain ie made in Italy etc stuff. Because I guess it would be far too expensive for the locals to be interested in, that Nilsson in NZ were suggesting. She said I could get from Italy, but with the weight of chain this would be an expensive option with frieght. Still might happen yet if I cant find the right size locally.
She also said they mostly do for metric chains these days. The better quality stuff is closer to the specified dimensions for eg a 10mm chain which Nilsson make their gypsies for. Other cheap manufacturers are apparently not very consistent with their dimensions. Which from what I have seen seems to be the case. In the US maybe this isnt so much of an issue. But cruising outside the easy to source stuff places I guess this is how it goes.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Gregthompson

We have a Nilsson Maxwell V700 windlass. We have the original manual. The windlass was offered with different gypsy wheels. Ours has 105 cast into it. Does anyone know how I would find what size chain to use? Windlass is on a 1984 Sabre 38. Displacement is about 16,000 lbs

I asked Maxwell the exact same question in 2013 for our Nilsson Maxwell 700 windless. Here is what they said.

On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 11:44 AM, Will Vrooman <WVrooman@vetus.com> wrote:
Hello Richard

The 105 stamped in the chain wheel means the wheel is for 5/16" High Test grade 40 chain.


Best Regards

Will Vrooman
Sales Manager
Vetus Maxwell America

714 227 3832 Cellular


-----Original Message-----
From: website@maxwellmarine.com [mailto:website@maxwellmarine.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 12:39
To: Will Vrooman
Subject: Enquiry from Maxwell Marine web site form

Name: richard
Email: xxx@yahoo.com
Country: United States of America
Enquiry Type: Power and Sail
Enquiry: I have an older Maxwell windlass on my 1991 Catalina 42 sailboat. I need to get new chain and I see "105" stamped inside the chain wheel.

What size and type chain should I use?

Thanks. Richard

We bought 5/16 High Test Grade 40 short link (ISO) Acco brand galvanized chain, and it fit great. Hope that helps!

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Well. That's pretty annoying. As you say, Maxwell must think their customers are pretty incompetent.

Seeing there's a lack of information and support from the maker, unless some other forum member has broken the code, the only options I see are figure it out. If you have a guess on the approximate size chain one option is to buy a 12" piece of chain and run it around the gypsy to see if it fits. Or you could try measuring the chain pockets in the gypsy to get an idea of links per foot to narrow down the choices.

By the way, links per foot is the most important dimension in getting a chain to fit properly in the windlass. In case the OP doesn't already know this, the links/ft of 3/8" BBB are very different from 3/8" HT chain so you can't go on the measure of size metal used to make the links. I went through this process and discovered 3/8" BBB and 5/16" HT had almost identical links/ft and either would work just find in my windlass.

That's because the 5/16 isn't! It's actually 9mm,i went through this recently in capetown. I can't remember the details but I posted them somewhere on this forum.