Clean boats x dirty boats

[hthoni]

Originally Posted by SailingFan

Good Lord... How is it that so many folks go to such lengths to impose their personal cleaning will upon others and they don't get booted from the marina for just making trouble? If the guy has a trashed hull and vessel and it looks ugly enough that the marina has an issue with it, that is their issue, but it is not the issue of the patrons of the marina to enforce. If the patrons don't like it, they are free to spend their fees elsewhere.



It does not matter what the issue is, there is always someone who seems to come along and complain that another persons house/car/boat/lawn is needing maintenance, and not only do they try to hunt up "facts" to support the preformed conclusion, they do not take the initiative to offer to the other owner a means to share in the cost to initiate a remedy, nor do they offer to do it themselves to protect themselves from whatever perceived loss they would suffer if the situation remained as it was currently.



In this case, if all those critters were knocked loose, some would be part of the feast for fishes, some would fall to the bottom, some would drift away, and the rest will latch, mostly down current, against whatever they could hold to as they passed by. In the case of this particular marina, given the photos of the plastic bags, bilge grease, and other pollutants I see in that water, the neighbor's hull is the LEAST of the OP concerns. A few plankton and shells won't do crap relative to that plastic bag, and yet he was there to take the pic and not to remove the bag? That soupy garbage that is called "water" around those hulls is just teeming with life, and scraping the hull is not going to change that. It may redistribute it for a little bit, but it is still going to lock onto any available surface, whether that hull is there or not.



The funny thing is that the greater the growth already on the hull, the less effective the hull paint is going to be in repelling growth, and that means the dirty hull may actually be attracting the growth away from the cleaner ones! Consider how reefs work, they are fish magnets. They gather all sorts of life in an otherwise somewhat more barren ocean. The neighbor's hull is a reef, and is concentrating critters and growth, so the OP should be happy it is there!

I couldn't care less for other people's properties and goods, as long they don't bring me problems.

It doesn't work like you wrote above. If you scrub adult animals, hey will go down to the bottom and become other animals food.

They reproduce up to 24 times per year, and spread up to 10.000 larvae each time. That's when they go with the current and attach to appropriate surfaces around the adult source. Their larvae density decreases relative to the distance from the reproduction source.

It seems that you prefer to attack me than to bring rational to the table... by the way. I picked up the plastic bag.

[hthoni]

Originally Posted by hthoni

I couldn't care less for other people's properties and goods, as long they don't bring me problems.

It doesn't work like you wrote above. If you scrub adult animals, hey will go down to the bottom and become other animals food.

They reproduce up to 24 times per year, and spread up to 10.000 larvae each time. That's when they go with the current and attach to appropriate surfaces around the adult source. Their larvae density decreases relative to the distance from the reproduction source.

It seems that you prefer to attack me than to bring rational to the table... by the way. I picked up the plastic bag.

And just to make it more reasonable, it is not a marina, it is a club. Whose management we elect every 2 years, and we decide together how we should gather and coexist in those premises.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Saying that the practice is questionable is obvious, since many regulatory authorities are questioning it.

Because regional and local regulatory agencies are under the gun to meet federal water quality standards does not make in-water hull cleaning a "questionable practice." The fact is that copper-based paints leach biocide into the water column 24/7/365 regardless of whether they are cleaned or not. Does in-water hull cleaning contribute to copper loading? Yes, and nobody denies that. But studies show that the contribution is a small fraction of the total amount that comes from anti fouling paint. And it remains a necessary part of proper boat maintenance regardless of which ignorant water board member offers up their knee-jerk reaction.

Originally Posted by thinwater

For soft paints, it is established as a poor practice for both environmental and practical reasons. I understand you sometimes clean soft paints, but I have tested soft paints locally and am quite convinced that it removes copper and reduces paint life expectancy dramatically, no matter how gentle or infrequent the process.

I challenge you to provide a single shred of evidence that this is the case. Your argument on this point is based solely on speculation and unscientific "testing." The fact is that ablative paints typically have a significantly lower copper content than many hard paints and properly maintained (through gentle in-water hull cleaning) can last nearly as long as hard paints. There are exceptions to be sure (Pettit Vivid and Interlux Trilux 33, for example) but generally speaking, ablative paints are no more polluting than hard paints.

Originally Posted by thinwater

Fuel consumption is rather low if we are sailors.

Yeah, but that is not true for powerboats. You don't get to pick and choose amongst boat types to support your argument.

Originally Posted by thinwater

As I pointed out, several marinas in the Chesapeake Bay have banned in-slip cleaning because of the suggestion that it increased growth (I interviewed them) on neighboring boats.

Puh-leez. Marinas ban in-water hull cleaning because in-water hull cleaning cuts into the profits their attached boatyards make hauling and cleaning boats. Either that or they feel (again, ignorantly) that in-water hull cleaning is some kind of gross polluting activity. There simply is no science to support that.

[double u]

I know that at least the larvae of some species of "bottom-growth" have a pelagic stage of a certain duration & are not released into the water to immediately settle on the next submerged surface. I wonder if not most of these critters have a pelagic state...

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by hthoni

Some tasks are not feasible, but that doesn't mean nothing can be done to make something better.

Mooring beside a boat like this...

Attachment 156268

Is like living beside a house like this...

Attachment 156269

True and that's why I live in a home in a neighborhood with restrictive covenants.

The problem is, you are apparently in a marina with no rules or restrictions, at least not the rules and restrictions that would suit you. Unless your marina is sold to a company that wants to make it more "upscale", it's unlikely that you will be able to put rules in place to bring it up to your satisfaction.

I have to share the docks with a couple of pretty run down boats (that aren't being bottom cleaned, BTW), but it's not my place to tell the boat owners or marina management to get rid of them or set standards for the boats.

I think the choices for you (and for all of us) are to either put up with the situation or find a marina that suits us better.

You can always make suggestions of course but you have to be careful that you don't come off as trying to tell others what to do. Why not get your diver's business cards and put them on the boats that need cleaning?

[Cheechako]

"I walked by your boat the other day, I thought I should let you know, one of the coils on your mooring lines was a little imperfect and one loop was a bit bigger than the others...Please correct that..."

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by hthoni

And just to make it more reasonable, it is not a marina, it is a club. Whose management we elect every 2 years, and we decide together how we should gather and coexist in those premises.

OK, having gotten this far, you are in a "club" not a commercial marina. Now that's a real can of worms.

This is a situation where some of the members want to impose their will on the other members. And these "wills" can change every two years!

Often, a club like this will develop "cliques" where some members are part of the "in crowd" and others are not. It's often possible for the members to "gang up" on other members to make life miserable for them.

I would hope that any "rules" were stated when the club was formed and that it is very difficult to change them, especially at the whim of officials who are elected every two years.

Perhaps some "educational articles" could be posted in the public areas or included in the club newsletter about the harm of allowing growth to accumulate on boat hulls. Perhaps you could convince a local diving service to offer a discount to club members.

I think you'll do better approaching this in a positive way rather than setting the club members against each other by imposing new rules.

[hthoni]

Originally Posted by rwidman

True and that's why I live in a home in a neighborhood with restrictive covenants.

The problem is, you are apparently in a marina with no rules or restrictions, at least not the rules and restrictions that would suit you. Unless your marina is sold to a company that wants to make it more "upscale", it's unlikely that you will be able to put rules in place to bring it up to your satisfaction.

I have to share the docks with a couple of pretty run down boats (that aren't being bottom cleaned, BTW), but it's not my place to tell the boat owners or marina management to get rid of them or set standards for the boats.

I think the choices for you (and for all of us) are to either put up with the situation or find a marina that suits us better.

You can always make suggestions of course but you have to be careful that you don't come off as trying to tell others what to do. Why not get your diver's business cards and put them on the boats that need cleaning?

It's not a Marina, it's a club. Whose members decide the issues and elect the directors every 2 years.

the divers' business cards would sit there forever...

[passthetuna]

The barnacles on your boat are caused by someone else's boat ? Oh my. That is so rich. Did they cause the algae too ?

[hthoni]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

"I walked by your boat the other day, I thought I should let you know, one of the coils on your mooring lines was a little imperfect and one loop was a bit bigger than the others...Please correct that..."

really? dou you really think thats the same kind of problem?
for me its like the rotten abandoned house example posted before

Or... do you have a dog?
do you love the dog? does the dog love to go to the park and play along with other dogs?

let's say one dog owner, put this animal to play amongst the others... how the other owners would feel about it?

[hthoni]

Originally Posted by passthetuna

The barnacles on your boat are caused by someone else's boat ? Oh my. That is so rich. Did they cause the algae too ?

no, of course not!
please read the question carefully.

the amount of larvae around the piers will increase by the number of barnacles around the boats... that's proven... since I've initiated this forum I've already find articles stating that the amount of larvae is related to distance of the reproduction source. The closer your boat is to a source, the more all be the larvae around your boat.

does it sound strange to you? for me it sounds pretty obvious, just like termites, ants, roaches, rats, bats, mosquitoes or any other creature... don't tell me you're ok with those creatures around you... or their example is not suitable... they're all animals...

each barnacle can reproduce up to 24 times per year, and spread up to 10.000 larvae each time... they get sexually mature with 5 mm! yeah... 1/6"...

how many larvae this barnacle haven should release every day?

[Bill Seal]

While you're at it, start a petition to force the marina to clean the bottoms of the finger floats on a bi-weekly schedule too, since they're between your boat and the neighbor's barnacle farm.

[SimonV]

Do you live in a house, what do you do if the neighbouring property owner didn't cut his grass. All those weed seeds coming to your place. What do you do.?

[hthoni]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

While you're at it, start a petition to force the marina to clean the bottoms of the finger floats on a bi-weekly schedule too, since they're between your boat and the neighbor's barnacle farm.

someone else gave this idea before... not feasible.
but that doesn't mean we should sit and do nothing to make it better.

if those reckless boat owners, who never go to there, sell their boats to people that care and love boats, the club and its members would only benefit from it.

everyone is replying with the main argument that people should be free to do whatever they want with their boats... yes, I agree. but go to an isolated place and be the king of your castle, whats the difference between that and playing loud music 3:00 am everynight beside your boat?

[hthoni]

Originally Posted by SimonV

Do you live in a house, what do you do if the neighbouring property owner didn't cut his grass. All those weed seeds coming to your place. What do you do.?

are seeds like barnacles?
i would rather compare them to rats, mosquitoes or termites...