Climbing rope vs marine rope for rode

[Kettlewell]

I've seen many mentions of using climbing rope for an anchor snubber. How about climbing or arborist rope for part of a mixed chain and rope anchor rode? I know back in the day, 1970s I think, Herb Repass, founder of New England Ropes, was also the manufacturer of Goldline climbing rope. I have a bunch of old coils of Goldline that I use for miscellaneous stuff around the house and yard, and it still looks and feels just about as good as new. It is three-strand nylon rope with a gold color, but otherwise looks identical to marine nylon three-strand. Obviously, I would not use this ancient rope for anything critical, but its longevity is admirable. Seeing that the climbing/arborist community has quite high demands for rope quality I suspect they also utilize some rope types that might be useful for anchor rodes. Anyone doing this? Which rope? Where do you get it?

[Tin Tin]

Just check the UV resistance.

[thinwater]

Yes, I have used an old climbing rope (11 mm kernmantle).



Upsides:

• I had it.
• Excellent hand. Easy to recover if you don't have a windlass.
• Takes knots well.
• Good chafe resistance. I have tested climbing ropes vs. marine ropes on rope vs. rock chafe rigs, and the tight cover common to climbing ropes is optimized for life on rocks.
• Excellent stretch/fatigue life, better than any other rope type. Possible too stretchy for larger boats, but has a better stretch/size ratio than other nylon for smaller, light boats anchoring in shallow water.

Downsides:

• Won't fit a combination gypsy, which doesn't matter if you don't have a windlass.
• Less UV resistant. Of course, unlike a dockline, the anchor rope isn't going to spend that much time in the sun on a small, often trailerable boat. And climbing ropes are expected to endure a good many days in the sun (contrary to popular belief, climbing ropes were not invented for life in the gym).
• Already worn when you get it, unless you buy new. That said, the use will be well know and most climbers retire ropes in very good shape.
• Can't splice. The anchor will be attached with a knot, but on the other hand, these ropes are very good with knots and are, in fact, rated using a knot in one end.

There is urban legend that says climbing ropes are somehow "sacrificial" in design and thus can absorb only a rate number of hard impacts. This is complete nonsense with no basis in fact. In fact, the basic rope design (cover with parallel twisted core), is how you build the most fatigue -resistant ropes.


Personally, I prefer the feel of 3-strand and I like being able to splice it. I seem to use my old climbing ropes for other things.

[Kettlewell]

Excellent information. Thanks! By the way, I bought your book Rigging Modern Anchors--good stuff!

Can't splice. The anchor will be attached with a knot, but on the other hand, these ropes are very good with knots and are, in fact, rated using a knot in one end.

What knot do you use to attach to the chain and how?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Excellent information. Thanks! By the way, I bought your book Rigging Modern Anchors--good stuff!

What knot do you use to attach to the chain and how?

This was a long time ago.


A figure 8 with a length of 1-inch webbing threaded over the rope to serve as a sort of thimble.

[Kettlewell]

Found this Practical Sailor article on this topic. Sounds like some arborist line might be worth investigating further. https://www.practical-sailor.com/sai...ller-sailboats

One thing that surprises me is that double braid nylon is reported to be less abrasion resistant than 3-strand, here and in other places. I once used some quality double braid as my main rode on a heavy 37-footer that had no windlass, so the main anchor was a 45lb. CQR with only 6 feet or so of chain. We anchored extensively everywhere from New Brunswick to the Florida Keys and noticed very little wear over the course of several years of use. I suppose we avoided giving it acid tests anchoring on rocks and coral, but I wouldn't try to do that with any rode. I also have observed that the most expensive and supposedly most durable mooring pendants are double braid. Again, on my own boats I have observed that double braid mooring pendants last longer than 3 strand. Based on these observations onboard my own boats I had always assumed double braid was more abrasion resistant than 3-strand.

[skipperpete]

This is a bit off topic but my anchor warp is Liros lead cored braidline, 16mm. Nice to handle and it coils up really well. It came with a pre spliced eye and thimble.

[Kettlewell]

Found an old thread I started on the chafe topic. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ope-56098.html

Still perplexed by this. Practical Sailor and others have run some good tests, but practical experience on my boats seems to tell me the opposite.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Found an old thread I started on the chafe topic. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ope-56098.html

Still perplexed by this. Practical Sailor and others have run some good tests, but practical experience on my boats seems to tell me the opposite.

Perhaps this might clarify. In order of chafe resistance. This varies a good deal with specific product, what you are chafing it against, and the specific motion. I these tests the motion was side-to-side using a pendulum and the material was cinderblock, because it is easy to standardize.

1. Three strand (the wear tends to be even)
2. Kernmantle (the tight cover is optimized for sliding over rock, but it can't be spliced)
3. Double braid (good until the cover fails, and then it fails. The cover is loose so that the rope can be spliced)
4. Single braid (the loose braid snags on crystals, cutting)

The best cures for chafe are chain, rigging methods (keep the rope off the bottom), and over-sized rope (easy for smaller boats). The rope type is probably less important.

[Tin Tin]

I often look at these safety items through the lense of an insurance assessor. If your rode parts and your boat hits another boat or is lost on the rocks, if the sum involved is large enough the assessor will examine the broken rode and say that is not appropriate for anchoring - claim denied. You are then on the back foot seeking help from people on forums trying to prove that what you did was seaman-like - your attorney might win, might not, but sure as eggs if your case relies on what you read on a anonymous forum, that is not going to fly. Try getting a letter from New England Ropes stating that climbing rope is good for anchoring.

[Kettlewell]

I often look at these safety items through the lense of an insurance assessor.

I look at them through the lens of what is the best product for the job to prevent the boat from breaking free in the first place! Not saying that climbing rope is better necessarily, but certainly worth studying and learning about for where it might be appropriate for use onboard. I bet when nylon rope first appeared during WWII boaters and insurers viewed it skeptically at first. Manila rope was the standard back then. I'm pretty sure Dyneema was first developed for other commercial uses long before it came to boats.

[Tin Tin]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I look at them through the lens of what is the best product for the job to prevent the boat from breaking free in the first place! Not saying that climbing rope is better necessarily, but certainly worth studying and learning about for where it might be appropriate for use onboard. I bet when nylon rope first appeared during WWII boaters and insurers viewed it skeptically at first. Manila rope was the standard back then. I'm pretty sure Dyneema was first developed for other commercial uses long before it came to boats.

Well you wouldn't have rope at all and have all chain.

[Kettlewell]

Well you wouldn't have rope at all and have all chain.

Sure, where appropriate, chain is great for avoiding chafe. OTOH lots of boats with all chain drag anchor, and some of the time it is related to not having a stretchy and long-enough snubber to reduce the loads. I was in a tight anchorage this summer in a minor blow where several boats on all chain rodes dragged away in the night (always at night it seems!), yet two others near me with short lengths of chain and long nylon rodes didn't budge. A large schooner had no chain and only nylon! I was on mostly chain with a nylon snubber and did fine. My point being that all chain isn't a cure all.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Sure, where appropriate, chain is great for avoiding chafe. OTOH lots of boats with all chain drag anchor, and some of the time it is related to not having a stretchy and long-enough snubber to reduce the loads. I was in a tight anchorage this summer in a minor blow where several boats on all chain rodes dragged away in the night (always at night it seems!), yet two others near me with short lengths of chain and long nylon rodes didn't budge. A large schooner had no chain and only nylon! I was on mostly chain with a nylon snubber and did fine. My point being that all chain isn't a cure all.

Some of those all chain users also subscribe to the old theory that big heavy chain holds the boat and likely had massively inadequate anchors at the other end of the chain.

Personally, I subscribe to the more modern idea of using smaller, lighter, high strength chain. The chain is there mostly for durability and any other benefits are a bonus. Stretch should be provided by an adequate snubber, as you mentioned (which many people don't have).

[Kettlewell]

Some of those all chain users also subscribe to the old theory that big heavy chain holds the boat and likely had massively inadequate anchors at the other end of the chain.

Hard to tell from a distance, but the anchors were modern hoop types--I suspect Rocnas--and they looked to be of adequate size. The biggest problems I see are not due to inadequate equipment but instead due to not anchoring properly--too short scope and inadequate setting procedures. Short or no snubbers are prevalent too.