Comparing design of Delta and Sarca Excel anchors

[HBrew]

I too am interested why you were not totally satisfied with the Rocna Vulcan. I have one and so far, apart from one case with soft mud, it has held very well.

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Interested as to why you would get rid of a trusted and proven anchor in favour of another. As an addition to maybe if needing a second anchor.

Good question. The Vulcan is a great anchor and ours has never dragged once set and held us through many gales up to 60 knots.

There are two huge issues with the Vulcan that caused me to finally let go of it-

1. It's finicky to set.

Requires careful technique, minimum 5:1 scope, and won't set reliably if dragged before the scope is deployed (discovered this the hard way after 6 tries in a familiar anchorage with sticky mud bottom, then finally looked up the manufacturers guidelines for setting this anchor which clearly state the above).

Gotta admit, Rocna spoiled me. I got the original Rocna (roll bar version) when it first came out and it changed my anchoring forever. I could throw that thing overboard and it would set immediately no matter what (this was SF Bay, so sticky mud pretty much everywhere).

So that is my high standard. I really want an anchor that sets fast and reliably even under (or especially under) less then optimal conditions. When I moved up to boats with a bowsprit roller that the new gen anchors with roll bars won't fit, I had to change anchors and while I have been happy with the holding, I have not been happy with the setting of the Vulcan and I REALLY want to be 100% happy and experience blissful piece of mind with this critical piece of equipment that allows us to safely enjoy cruising.


2. Recent tests by sources I trust show that it can pull out and resist resetting because it's scoop gets clogged with mud. Seems more likely to do this with strong 180 degree shifts. Morgan's Cloud, my favorite cruising guru, stopped recommending Rocna for this reason. While my Vulcan has always stayed in place and pivoted, it does not provide me peace of mind to know this weakness, and I know first hand how much mud can foul the fluke as it all comes up when raising the anchor!

So why the Excel? As I mentioned, I wrote it off some time ago as a Delta copy, but Chris at groundtackle.com convinced me to look more closely and what I found was a combination 70/30 convex/concave design that appears to be the best of both worlds.

Tests and user reviews show the Excel sets fast, digs deep, holds super strong, and resets reliably. I haven't seen any criticism or complaint and can't wait to test it for myself. Chris said he would take it back if it didn't meet or exceed the performance of my Vulcan, and that was the final push to give it a try.

In search of the perfect anchor for our boat and cruising grounds.... is it Excel? I don't know, but we'll see!

As for holding onto the Vulcan, I already have 4 anchors that serve different purposes and am happy with my selection. When I add a backup in case I lose my primary bower it will be a Mantus or Excel aluminum that comes apart and can be more easily stored. I sized up my new Excel to qualify as my storm anchor, following Morgan's Cloud advice to make your primary bower your storm anchor as you don't want to be caught in high winds trying to change anchors.

[Tumblewoods]

The scientific trials involved repeatedly dropping it off the bow and reversing back, setting anchor alarm and enjoying a sundowner.

[John Williams]

For what it is worth we had a Delta plough that came with the boat. It drove us mad with not setting time and agent. We replaced it with a standard Rocna (with roll bar) and ten years later having sailed the east coast of Australia as far north as Lizard Island and as far south as you can go including two circumnavigations of Tasmania it has only dragged once in 70 kts in Bathurst Harbour on the south west coast of Tasmania. It actually held in the 70 kt gusts but let go later in the afternoon in slightly less wind.

Also I think it has only failed to set first go on two or three occasions.

Delta anchors are ploughs. A plough is meant to plough through soil. How anyone ever thought a plough could be an effective anchor is beyond me. But I have no expertise other than experience and a bit of common sense.

[David B]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

I originally dismissed the Excel as a Delta copy until I was encouraged to take a closer look. After researching this anchor I was convinced enough to purchase one and let go of my trusty Rocna Vulcan.

I posted a side by side photo of my new Excel and my older, smaller Delta on another thread and decided this would be a fun topic on its own. I just got it and it'll be another couple of weeks before we continue cruising so I haven't been able to test it yet, but this is intended to address the confusion of some (including myself) who at first glance think they are similar designs, which now I see is far from the reality.

In brief, the Delta is clearly a plow and the Excel is a 70/30 concave/convex hybrid, but more about that below.

Scroll to see a photo of my Delta and Excel side by side.

They are different sizes but their differences are readily apparent.

Here's some (non-expert!) observations and opinions:

- They both have a triangular shape (I know, that's just a gimme)

- The build quality is dramatically different. The Delta appears to be a simple design, easy to manufacture, and very affordable. The Excel seems like a work of art to me with so many purposeful details. It is NOT a simple anchor.

- The shank angle appears to be similar by eye (I didn't measure and don't know how!)

- The Excel has concave ears and flat surfaces all along both edges, while the Delta is clearly a plow that has its ears sticking out. Sarca denies the Excel is a plow and says it's 70/30 convex/concave. A really interesting design that I think might amplify holding power.

- The Delta has a straight tip and sits flat on the ground. The Excel has a tip that curves downward that I imagine helps it set faster and dig deeper.

- The tip of the Excel is SS welded on and can be sharpened to retain its effectiveness.

- The Excel has cut outs with its name, etc and I imagine that's intentional and not for branding (a sticker or stamping is cheaper and what the others do), or to save weight or manufacturing costs, but I don't know.

- The Excel has a long shank, longer than a Delta of the same size. I imagine that helps fast setting and digging as well, but don't know for sure.

- The Delta "ears" are flat and rounded, while the Excel's are squared and bend up at the ends, which I imagine might help with diving deep and holding, but that's just a guess.

- Both the Delta and Excel have a cross bar that I imagine is for strength. The Delta cross bar is a narrow rod and the Excels is a much larger tube.

- Both have a steel weight welded underneath near the tip.

And that's everything that I can spot. Please feel free to add your own observations and experiences with either or both of these anchors.

Interesting. The only negative I can see is that big bar. Dragging that through the mud must have some detrimental effect on it digging in.

For the same reason, I am rejecting the anchors that have a hoop (or roll bar) on them, thinking that hoop must affect the digging in.

At the moment I am considering a Spade. Would be interested in any comments there.

[ilenart]

Thanks SV, I also have a 25kg delta which I am looking for a replacement. How does the Excel compare to the Delta for fitting onto your bow? Any modifications required or does it fit on no problems?

Ilenart

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by ilenart

Thanks SV, I also have a 25kg delta which I am looking for a replacement. How does the Excel compare to the Delta for fitting onto your bow? Any modifications required or does it fit on no problems?
Ilenart

Hi Ilenart, I was concerned about the fit because I was sizing up so I sent measurements and photos to the folks at groundtackle.com. They (chris and nick) were great about answering all my questions and confirmed they saw "no issues" with fit.

And they were right, fits in the bow roller like it belongs there.

I have two issues size-wise:

1. When dropping it I have to maneuver it past the bobstay, but that was true about my Vulcan as well. It would have to be a pretty narrow anchor to clear the bobstay. The Delta would without a problem.

2. The shank is longer than my vulcan and can hit the roller furling drum while I'm maneuvering it past the bobstay. This shouldn't be a problem after some practice.

It comes up and seats in the roller without assistance and without hitting the roller furling drum.

Like everything else on a boat, there's tradeoffs and compromises. As much as I'd like to drop anchor without maneuvering past the bobstay, I'd rather have a larger anchor that does everything I want and gives me peace of mind.

If you're considering an Excel and concerned about size, check the measurements on their website against your current anchor and boat, and if you have questions don't hesitate to contact them as they are good folks who are also boat owners, passionate about anchoring and familiar with most boats out there (I think Chris said that he delivered 3 boats of my exact model, so it was cool talking with someone familiar with my boat).

[eheffa]

Originally Posted by David B

Interesting. The only negative I can see is that big bar. Dragging that through the mud must have some detrimental effect on it digging in.

For the same reason, I am rejecting the anchors that have a hoop (or roll bar) on them, thinking that hoop must affect the digging in.

At the moment I am considering a Spade. Would be interested in any comments there.

I can comment on the Rocna vs Spade.

We had a standard roll bar Rocna 25 kg as our main bower. (We have a Nordic Tug 37 cruising the West Coast of BC and anchoring out a lot.) Over our initial 2 years of owning the Rocna, we encountered a good number of anchorages where we would have trouble getting a set. One dark and stormy night, the anchor alarm went off. We had encountered a tide and wind shift at 180 degrees to our initial set and the Rocna let go allowing the boat to suddenly move ~ 30 m before resetting - just in time to avoid hitting the rocks. I spent the rest of the night awake and paranoid that it could happen again.

The Panope videos demonstrate that the Rocna is not great at shedding mud off the flukes and if it is dislodged it does not readily set again: Think sled instead of anchor. This image matched our stormy night experience. I lost confidence in the Rocna.

We replaced the Rocna with a S120 Spade (25 Kg).

My wife and I have noticed a much quicker and more reliable set with the Spade. She often comments on how much quicker and more definitively it sets. (Previous anchorages where we struggled to get any set with the Rocna are simply not an issue with the Spade.) We have also noted that the windlass has to work harder extracting the Spade from the bottom as it seems to have dug in deeper than the Rocna would in the same.

The only downside of the Spade for us would be cosmetic. The galvanizing seems to be substandard and we now have a number of areas of bare metal that rust readily. (We have set the anchor >120+ times in often rocky conditions so no surprise that it's now a little beaten up.) Re-galvanizing is not easy to do on the Spade as the lead in the tip needs special treatment. Once it warms outside, I am planning to paint the Spade with POR-15 to try and deal with this rust issue.





If I were buying a new anchor, I would give the Sarca Excel a good hard look if only to avoid the rust issue. Panope's videos show it be an excellent performer in every respect.

-evan

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by eheffa

My wife and I have noticed a much quicker and more reliable set with the Spade. She often comments on how much quicker and more definitively it sets. (Previous anchorages where we struggled to get any set with the Rocna are simply not an issue with the Spade.) We have also noted that the windlass has to work harder extracting the Spade from the bottom as it seems to have dug in deeper than the Rocna would in the same.

If I were buying a new anchor, I would give the Sarca Excel a good hard look if only to avoid the rust issue. Panope's videos show it be an excellent performer in every respect.-evan

Thanks for sharing your extensive experience Evan, I love hearing from fellow cruisers who anchor full time and I give your info much more credibility than day, weekend, or armchair sailors (no criticism or offense intended, it's just that different sailors and boats have different needs and standards. Hey, I used to be a weekend sailor myself!)

My favorite cruising guru, Morgan's Cloud ("Attainable Adventure Cruising") loves the Spade as his primary bower, and seems to consider the Excel equivalent or close in performance.

Unsolicited promotion- If you're not familiar with AAC, check them out as the site is a goldmine for every cruising topic under the sun, with lots of "online books" that thoroughly cover specific topics (like anchoring) and posts by guest experts. This is my favorite go-to resource along with Practical Sailor.

Here's his latest article on the Spade and Excel (you might need a subscription to view, well worth the expense IMHO, but he has free articles as well so it might work for you)-
https://www.morganscloud.com/2019/04...-other-anchor/

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by eheffa

]

If I were buying a new anchor, I would give the Sarca Excel a good hard look if only to avoid the rust issue.

You do realise most other anchors are made in s/s as well right?

If you use your boat and anchor continually rust is a non issue as it is cleaned off at every use.
Chain not so easy, but where it drags through the sand is always shiney on retrieval.

[Simi 60]

As for roll bar issues..........
We run a 150 lb Manson supreme and anchor 365 days of the year.
Roll bar on that is probably 1 1/2 pipe.
Never have we had a problem setting in weed, mud, sand (rarely back down, just drop and let it set)
We regularly anchor in strong tidal currents, quick to get snubber on as it instant sets and zero movement on current reversal.

This anchor has seen 80+ knots holding a high windage 70 tonne vessel.

[RaymondR]

I suspect that many of the problems I had with both the hinged plow and Delta are due to seagrass beds which are fairly extensive on the Australian coasts and that it is the side lobes on the Bruce or claw style that are able to cut through the tight root mass and establish a quick and reliable set.

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

You do realise most other anchors are made in s/s as well right? If you use your boat and anchor continually rust is a non issue as it is cleaned off at every use.

Hmm... I've seen lots of shiny stainless steel anchors on expensive power boats, but never on a serious cruising boat. Have you? Ever wonder why?

I also have to disagree with you about rust. Salt water is extremely corrosive and when the galvanizing wears off it doesn't take long for rust to form, even if you rinse with fresh water when it's on the bow.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

Hmm... I've seen lots of shiny stainless steel anchors on expensive power boats, but never on a serious cruising boat. Have you? Ever wonder why?

That wasn't the point I made.
I wouldn't want a S/s anchor, shackle OR swivel but thats not eheffa's way of thinking.

I also have to disagree with you about rust. Salt water is extremely corrosive and when the galvanizing wears off it doesn't take long for rust to form, even if you rinse with fresh water when it's on the bow

.

You did see the bit where I said if used continually?
Like I said, we anchor 365 days a year
Salt water deck wash
Anchor and chain has heavily worn galv but I guarantee you it will come up shiney.

If I leave it for 24 hours it will have a healthy covering of rust colour, but as soon as its used it comes up clean again, zero change in chain diameter.

[eheffa]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

That wasn't the point I made.
I wouldn't want a S/s anchor, shackle OR swivel but thats not eheffa's way of thinking.
.

You did see the bit where I said if used continually?
Like I said, we anchor 365 days a year
Salt water deck wash
Anchor and chain has heavily worn galv but I guarantee you it will come up shiney.

If I leave it for 24 hours it will have a healthy covering of rust colour, but as soon as its used it comes up clean again, zero change in chain diameter.

At the risk of taking this discussion well away from the Original poster's intentions - sorry!

To clarify 'eheffa's way of thinking...' ;-)

Spade offered to give us full credit on upgrading our anchor to a SS version. I'm not sure that Stainless Steel performs as well as regular galvanized steel. (See Attainable Adventure Cruising for more discussion on this.) I'm also not prepared to pay the significant cost difference for what, at this stage, is still a cosmetic issue especially when there may be a satisfactory workaround; I am going to try painting it with POR-15 after careful surface preparation.

We are not full-timers but depending on vacation time available to me, we spend 8 - 10 weeks a year out on the boat. We anchor out most of the time. We wash the anchor and chain in saltwater every time it's used and it usually comes up less rusty than it was when it was deployed; but when we aren't using the boat, it blooms a healthy coating of rust quite quickly. I'm afraid that if left to it's natural course, it will no longer be a cosmetic issue but a structural one.

We do have a SS Mantus swivel that is quite skookum and works well. (I am aware of the potential pros and cons of using swivel and choose to use a very heavy version that is definitely not the weak link in the system.

Now... back to the subject of Sarca Excel?

-evan