Couple of snubber questions

[KrakenJr]

Hi all, apologies if these have been asked many times. I have done a search but have found mixed answers.

I would like to set up a snubber system for a 9m, 4.5mt monohull using cleat > nylon snubber > soft shackle > chain. I would like to know what most people connect between snubber and soft shackle - is this usually a spliced loop of the nylon with a steel (not sure the name) "thimble" within the loop? I assume a "nude" loop of nylon with the shackle connected directly would have chafe issues?

Also, what is the general preference on a mono - one snubber leg or two for redundancy?

Cheers

[Peeew]

On my monohull I have been using spliced eyes directly to soft shackle and have not had any issues yet. I think my current set has been used for two 6 month trips so far. I use two nylon lines for redundancy but will occasionally use them at different locations to keep the boat better aligned with chop.

[dougweibel]

A thimble won't hurt but it probably is not needed in your application. There is no reason for the angle between the snubber and soft shackle to be moving around under load. I am using a chain hook at present but have used a soft shackle in the past connected to an eye without a thimble and had no chafe issues.

[JebLostInSpace]

OP you're right that some variation on this question comes up pretty frequently. And every time it does, someone jumps in with the same advice I would give: Don't mess around with shackles (hard or soft) and thimbles and spliced eyes and all of that, simply tie a rolling hitch around your chain. This way your snubbing system is nothing more than a single rope. It's dead simple, cheap, can be used with chain or rope rode, you can adjust the length easily for every situation, and in my experience is subjected to very little chafe.

For some reason, even though this advice is frequently given, it seems like most people are reluctant to do it. I'm not sure why that would be, but I have two guesses.

1. People are not confident in their rolling hitches. If that's the case, I advise just practicing it. Tie one snubber on with a rolling hitch, and just behind that use whatever other system you currently have. That way, if the hitch does fail, your regular system takes over. I will nearly guarantee that after 3-5 repetitions you will realize a rolling hitch is easy and secure, and you will start trusting it.

2. Your snubbing line is too thick compared to your chain, and doesn't tie nicely. If that's the case, I suspect your snubbing line is too thick. Remember, the purpose of the snubber is to stretch, damping the shock on the chain as the boat dances around on the anchor. If the snubber is too thick, it won't stretch until a lot of force is already being transmitted to the chain. As a side note, you also want to make your snubber nice and long to increase how much stretching the snubber can do. I use a retired climbing rope because it stretches even more than nylon.

As for the question of 1 vs. 2 snubbing lines, I prefer 2. This way, if one were to chafe through, the other is still there. Since I use a retired climbing rope, I have some 150' available. I tie one end from the chain to the starboard cleat, and the other end from the chain to the port cleat. This leaves the middle 100' in a pile on the foredeck. Every so often I cut a foot or so off the ends as the line chafes. I imagine at this rate my one climbing rope will be consumed in a decade or so. Having one line to each cleat might also help to reduce swing, but that effect is pretty small given how close to centerline my two cleats are.

[Shrew]

I use thimbles, shackles and a chain hook. Otherwise I would use a rolling hitch.

Admittedly the question is solely around soft shackles, which I haven't used. I wouldn't use unprotected loops where there is a chance that sawing will cause friction and potentially part the line.

[noelex 77]

Welcome to the forum.

Soft shackles are the best chain/snubber attachment we have found, so you are on the right track.

A thimble is OK, but is not really needed the bend radius on the eye splice does not seem to be an issue, nor does chafe. The slippery nature of Dyneema reduces the chafe on the nylon.

You can use a single line or a bridal. One or the other will work better depending on the characteristics of the yacht, so some experimentation is needed. On most monohulls the difference is not great.

[KrakenJr]

Thanks a lot lot for all the quick, thorough replies everyone. This forum is an amazing resource. Some really great info in all your posts. I think i will experiment with the suggestions - just nylon and a rolling hitch or alternative, and also the soft shackle route without the thimble.

[KrakenJr]

Hi all

Just returning to this. I have just been day sailing so far and not anchoring so have not yet set up my system (there is an anchor snubber onboard from previous owner just in case, but doesn't look great and I haven't had to use it). I forgot to ask about rope diameter for this (29ft, 3.5 tonne) - my understanding is that you don't want too small as for load reasons, but not too large as part of it's job is to stretch. Searches suggest somewhere around 3/8th to 1/2" would be most suited for this size boat?

Secondly, I will also need a new set up for attaching to mooring buoys - I am planning on doing 2 lines - 1 from each bow cleat to buoy and back on itself. Internet search has made it hard for me to find out the suggested sizing as most refer to mooring line diameter for in slips. I was think of getting around 8m of 3 strand nylon for each side but not sure the most appropriate diameter for this boat, assuming that stretch is not required like the snubber application?

[CarlF]

I'd say 1/2" is too big for a light boat like yours. 3/8" or 7/16". I'd probably do 7/16" - Get 20' of rope so you have 15' ft after splicing and tying to the cleat. It's the pennant length that provides most of the shock absorption.

Mooring lines should be big since there's no anchor chain to hold the boat as with a snubber and chafe is your biggest enemy. It takes longer to chafe through a bigger rope. I'd do 3/4". If you really want to sleep well when away from the boat, get a Yale MaxiMoor pennant. Worth the extra money. Maine's Hamilton Marine stocks them.

https://www.yalecordage.com/product/maxi-moor-ii/

https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/prod...s-s-44582.html

[KrakenJr]

Thanks a lot Carl. Much appreciated.

[ItDepends]

Originally Posted by JebLostInSpace

OP you're right that some variation on this question comes up pretty frequently. And every time it does, someone jumps in with the same advice I would give: Don't mess around with shackles (hard or soft) and thimbles and spliced eyes and all of that, simply tie a rolling hitch around your chain. This way your snubbing system is nothing more than a single rope. It's dead simple, cheap, can be used with chain or rope rode, you can adjust the length easily for every situation, and in my experience is subjected to very little chafe.

For some reason, even though this advice is frequently given, it seems like most people are reluctant to do it. I'm not sure why that would be, but I have two guesses.

1. People are not confident in their rolling hitches. If that's the case, I advise just practicing it. Tie one snubber on with a rolling hitch, and just behind that use whatever other system you currently have. That way, if the hitch does fail, your regular system takes over. I will nearly guarantee that after 3-5 repetitions you will realize a rolling hitch is easy and secure, and you will start trusting it.

2. Your snubbing line is too thick compared to your chain, and doesn't tie nicely. If that's the case, I suspect your snubbing line is too thick. Remember, the purpose of the snubber is to stretch, damping the shock on the chain as the boat dances around on the anchor. If the snubber is too thick, it won't stretch until a lot of force is already being transmitted to the chain. As a side note, you also want to make your snubber nice and long to increase how much stretching the snubber can do. I use a retired climbing rope because it stretches even more than nylon.

As for the question of 1 vs. 2 snubbing lines, I prefer 2. This way, if one were to chafe through, the other is still there. Since I use a retired climbing rope, I have some 150' available. I tie one end from the chain to the starboard cleat, and the other end from the chain to the port cleat. This leaves the middle 100' in a pile on the foredeck. Every so often I cut a foot or so off the ends as the line chafes. I imagine at this rate my one climbing rope will be consumed in a decade or so. Having one line to each cleat might also help to reduce swing, but that effect is pretty small given how close to centerline my two cleats are.

Jeb's thoughts and analysis are spot on. Simple, simple, simple. It JUST WORKS. I have ben doing it this way for 30 years, and never ONCE had reason to make it more complex or add any hardware.