Do I have TOO much chain?

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

When you put out 120’ of chain in Bahamian anchorages, you severely limit anchoring for others and you can be sure that another boat will sit over your anchor. 3:1 scope is a courtesy to others and should not give any trouble short of a frontal passage.

You assume a need to huddle with the herd. There's lots of space off the beaten path.

[Chotu]

There is also the hassle of just dealing with the anchor when we are talking about these short scopes. Constantly adjusting things. Always having to watch the conditions.

Throughout my entire life on boats I have avoided that because it just seems like a hassle to have that on my to do list at all times

I set my anchor for the case of the unexpected storm and then I don’t worry about it until I am leaving.

Makes boating more enjoyable in my opinion

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

You assume a need to huddle with the herd. There's lots of space off the beaten path.

It definitely won't hurt to use a bit more space when it's available. And it's nice to get out of the crowds. But it's still good to know you've got the gear to handle shortening up in a tighter spot when necessary.

Originally Posted by Chotu

There is also the hassle of just dealing with the anchor when we are talking about these short scopes. Constantly adjusting things. Always having to watch the conditions.

Throughout my entire life on boats I have avoided that because it just seems like a hassle to have that on my to do list at all times

I set my anchor for the case of the unexpected storm and then I don’t worry about it until I am leaving.

Makes boating more enjoyable in my opinion

I always try to plan for the worst upcoming forecast plus some, or the worst unexpected weather the area is prone to. I don't like fussing around and adjusting either. I'll do it if something really unexpected happens, but so far, I've never needed to.

But depending on the anchor sizing, water depth, and bottom conditions, there are plenty of cases where 3:1 or 4:1 would be fine for a hefty thunderstorm. And there are other places with shallow water and crappy bottoms where you'd need more scope for that same weather.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

This exactly

400' is not indeed too much chain; can be very useful indeed in deep water.

But second anchors on the bow and chain on THEM is dead weight in a place which affects sailing performance. You want one big, heavy, modern anchor, and one length of chain, which you use every time you anchor.

And the kedge should be a Fortress (or Guardian or whaever), and keep it on the pushpit or in the laz, with rope rode. I keep mine in an anchor locker at the bow, but I think rigged ready to go on a bracket on the pushpit is probably the optimum way to carry it. One of the several purposes of the kedge is as an emergency anchor, and you will save a great deal of precious time in case of urgent need, if it's there rather than buried in the laz someplace.

My only quibble with Jedi's excellent and comprehensive post is that I would use polyester and not nylon for the kedge anchor's rope rode.

Why does a kedge anchor’s rode need to be stretchy? We have UHMWPE lines on reels for use as shorelines and stern/kedge rodes - in both cases if we need to add shock absorption then we include a mooring shock absorber to the rode. But generally the shoreline or kedge needs no stretch and the primary rode from the bow provides shock absorption.

We do carry in a midships interior locker our old 31kg Spade and 200m of 22mm polyester three-strand line as backup spares to our main anchor and rode. No need for quick deployment as we have our kedge anchor ready to go.

[Ribbit]

"this was with an "old generation" anchor. I do plan on upgrading, but keeping an eye out for a used one"
Be careful with that, Not so long ago, there was a very bad batch of Steel, that affected otherwise very Anchors, which didn't take Well to being Hardened and Tempered Rocna was one, but I suspect has had a more reliable steel supplier for a good number of years now. Other Anchor Makers also have their Anchors Copied by unscrupulous People A Genuine Lewmar Delta Anchor, imho, is pretty much up there with Rocna, and others, if you can guarantee it's the Real Thing, and has the right steel, and beennproperly Hardened and Tempered But there are so many Counterfeits. My Last Boat, I was lucky, had a genuine one that was oversized for the boat, and frankly, I'd buy another and be happy with just one main Anchor, and all chain to it. So best of luck finding a nice one for your boat, just don't lumber yourself with a Stainless Steel one, or have Stainless Steel Chain. micro cracking . . . . . ugh. 👍

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Why does a kedge anchor’s rode need to be stretchy? We have UHMWPE lines on reels for use as shorelines and stern/kedge rodes - in both cases if we need to add shock absorption then we include a mooring shock absorber to the rode. But generally the shoreline or kedge needs no stretch and the primary rode from the bow provides shock absorption.. .

I don't think stretchiness is desirable in anchor rode. Chain is certainly not stretchy. UHMWPE has superior chafe resistance to other kinds of rope. Bit of a trick to rig a snubber to it, but you could place some Brummel eyes at strategic places along the length of your rode, for that purpose, with soft shackles in them maybe.


Only possible issue with UHMWPE rode is that some of it floats.

[Pegu Club]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I recommend you remove the 100’ and 50’ length ps of chain, keeping the 400’ length.

Also, remove both anchors and replace with a single one capable of holding the boat in all conditions. Think a Rocna, Manson, Spade etc. of a couple sizes larger than what you have now. With that anchor on the bowroller, there won’t be room for a second anchor, which is good.

Cut 25’ off the 50’ length and splice a 200’ nylon line to it. Put that in the lazarette together with a Fortress anchor. This is the 2nd anchor.

The other 25’ as well as the 100’ are not needed… sell it

This advice sounds correct, considering where the OP intends to cruise. At minimum there is little reason to have the 100’ length of chain just lying in the bottom of the chain locker doing naught but adding unnecessary weight. Remove that section, sell it and convert it into single malt scotch…,

Fair winds,

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I don't think stretchiness is desirable in anchor rode. Chain is certainly not stretchy. UHMWPE has superior chafe resistance to other kinds of rope. Bit of a trick to rig a snubber to it, but you could place some Brummel eyes at strategic places along the length of your rode, for that purpose, with soft shackles in them maybe.


Only possible issue with UHMWPE rode is that some of it floats.

Some amount of stretch in the overall system is needed, although excessive stretch can cause the boat to behave poorly in gusty winds. How you get that stretch doesn't really matter though. It can come from chain catenary, a stretchy rode, or a snubber. Any of them will work, although the stretchy rode will require more attention to chafe issues.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Some amount of stretch in the overall system is needed, although excessive stretch can cause the boat to behave poorly in gusty winds. How you get that stretch doesn't really matter though. It can come from chain catenary, a stretchy rode, or a snubber. Any of them will work, although the stretchy rode will require more attention to chafe issues.

Yes, chafe is key here, and that's why I like the idea of UHMWPE rode, provided a variety of it which doesn't float is chosen.


I replaced my chain last year and had the choice of downsizing to 10mm G80 to save 100kg in the bow. The cost would have been about a wash.


But damn it -- 330kg of anchor chain, all out in deep water, is PLUSH. It would take a hurricane to make you think about a snubber. And I've been sailing with no anchor chain for racing, and can't really notice the difference in sailing performance. So I sprang for the 12mm heavyweight.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yes, chafe is key here, and that's why I like the idea of UHMWPE rode, provided a variety of it which doesn't float is chosen.


I replaced my chain last year and had the choice of downsizing to 10mm G80 to save 100kg in the bow. The cost would have been about a wash.


But damn it -- 330kg of anchor chain, all out in deep water, is PLUSH. It would take a hurricane to make you think about a snubber. And I've been sailing with no anchor chain for racing, and can't really notice the difference in sailing performance. So I sprang for the 12mm heavyweight.

Personally, I think next time I have to buy a section of rope rode, it'll be something like Samson Tenex (12 strand polyester). Fairly low stretch, stronger than equivalent size nylon, more chafe resistant than nylon. And most importantly, it's cheap (just over $1 / ft for 5/8"), so replacing it a bit more frequently with any sign of wear is not a big cost.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

You assume a need to huddle with the herd. There's lots of space off the beaten path.

Especially in deeper water

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Personally, I think next time I have to buy a section of rope rode, it'll be something like Samson Tenex (12 strand polyester). Fairly low stretch, stronger than equivalent size nylon, more chafe resistant than nylon. And most importantly, it's cheap (just over $1 / ft for 5/8"), so replacing it a bit more frequently with any sign of wear is not a big cost.

Sounds good. My own kedge anchor rode is double braid polyester. It's not like the rope we use for sheets -- it's a looser weave and does have a bit of stretch to it. I think UHMWPE would probably be better, but the poly was easier. I have been happy with it over 10 years of use.

[Jim Cate]

^^^^

DH, I thought that all UHMWPE cordage was made from the same fiber chemistry, and that those fibers had a density less than water. How can some line float and some sink when made from the same stuff?

Jim

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

^^^^

DH, I thought that all UHMWPE cordage was made from the same fiber chemistry, and that those fibers had a density less than water. How can some line float and some sink when made from the same stuff?

Jim

Because I was mistaken! Thanks for the correction. I was thinking of Spectra, which does not float, but I see it's not UHMWPE.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Because I was mistaken! Thanks for the correction. I was thinking of Spectra, which does not float, but I see it's not UHMWPE.

But Spectra is UHMWPE, just with a slightly different molecular structure.

According to https://rigworks.com/yacht-rigging-s...spectra-lines/ and https://www.ballyribbon.com/fibers/spectra-dyneema/ Spectra line has the same specific gravity and should float.

Perhaps your Spectra line isn’t actually Spectra, or it is covered, or it contains other fibres, such that it no longer floats? Weird.