Do We Have Anchoring All Wrong?

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Smokeys Kitchen

Dsanduril, et al,

I never asked, but I believe that they just go wtih what has worked (Forfjord) in as heavy a selection as they can. They all seemed to have the equipment to manage that easily.

Just my 2c

I find it very interesting that the Forfjord anchor is commonly used on Alaskan fish boats. Here in BC most smaller commercial fish boats use Northills, or variations on the original design - often home made. I have never seen a Forfjord anchor and had never heard of one before this thread.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by MurrayC

Looks loke it works like a heavy
Danforth - fluke area perpendicular to pull.
Does the typical big ship anchor work the same way? By burying?
Can't argue with success.?

Big ship anchors are generally Navy types or variations. They hold mostly by sheer weight. They are used on Navy ships because, in the event of an attack, they have to haul anchor in a hurry and don't want to lose time breaking it out of the bottom. So they just drop it and it sits on the bottom without digging in. To the best of my knowledge big ships generally do not "back down" on their anchors to "set" them and see if they are holding. But I may be wrong on that last point.

However, ships generally have someone on watch when at anchor and will pay out more chain if the wind pipes up. THEN the anchors will dig in somewhat.

[Fortytwo]

Just because a pandemic made you bored, is not an excuse for an anchor thread... Who’s the pandemic now?

...I know I cheated on editing my spelling...
...and thank you...

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Fortytwo

Just because a pandemic made you board, is not an excuse for an anchor thread... Who’s the pandemic now?

Board? Board which ship? (or plane?). If you mean BORED, I'm not. I'm up to my eyeballs in an election campaign trying to get my sister elected to the provincial legislature! It's strenuous, fun, and exhausting

[Fortytwo]

What’s fun is poking another anchor thread...

...and how did you know that I’m trying to get my sister in?

[Sailor 99]

Originally Posted by bobnlesley

I've generally found that when advice/opinion on anything nautical includes the words 'there's only one way to do that' or similar, then it's usually best ignored.

Ain't that the gods own truth.

[GrowleyMonster]

For a small (under say 60 foot) sail or motor yacht, an electric windlass is a very convenient solution. Particularly if in a pinch it can also be operated by the "armstrong" method. I have seen a few motor yachts with drum winches and all manner of rode, even wire. When I was a kid growing up on shrimp boats, the anchor rode was 1-1/2" dia three strand nylon and about 10' of 5/8" chain. The anchor was always a regular shrimp boat anchor, having a fixed stock to turn one or the other fluke into the bottom. Easy to construct, inexpensive, strong, good holding power in most bottom of the gulf. The rode was coiled down in the forepeak or else just forward of the wheelhouse, sometimes in a cage built for the purpose. To drop the anchor, the chain was piled in the chute and a turn taken on the samson post, then the anchor just tipped up and thank you, gravity. A chafing gear, more like what you would call a snubber, was used. An eye is spliced in the end just big enough to pass a bight of the anchor line through. The anchor line is passed through on the bight, and then another bight passed through that, a slip knot in effect. The whole works is then fed out the anchor chute. The anchor line is then looped around the upper guard of the chute so it cannot chafe. To heave, the anchor line was walked back to the trawl winch and secured in snatch blocks for fairleading. The trawl winch had two catheads generally turning opposite directions and with smaller boats you could take it to just one, but for bigger boats or to keep from adding twist, and to prevent riding turns, the line was lead around both in a figure eight. This was convenient because the trawl winch was already there. Snapper boats had all sorts of anchor handling systems but many did have a hydraulic pump coupled via PTO to the engine, and a hydraulic drum winch on the bow. When the system failed, the only thing to do was use a couple of inner tubes on the anchor line, heave by hand until up and down, make it off to the samson post, and motor ahead full so the trailing anchor and line would pass up through the inner tubes. Sometimes this didn't work very well. Lots of anchors were cut off, where shrimp boats would foul their tickler chains and sometimes tear up nets on them.

On ships, the windlass is usually hydraulic, a few electric, and a few very old ships probably still have steam windlasses. I will look and see if I can find a vid of me dropping the anchor. You can't see the anchor of course but FYI it was probably about 15 tons.

The anchoring system depends on the type of vessel, and what existing equipment can be utilized for this as well as its primary purpose. There is no "best", only what makes a reasonable compromise on a given vessel or type of vessel.

Me, on my boat I have a Rocna and 325' of 3/8" chain. And an electric windlass, still to be installed, that runs on electricity or "armstrong" power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Swlb1a6jaU

[Sailor 99]

Well I have 3/8 chain. 400 ft of the stuff is a bit of a chore to get in the locker. I can not imaging 3/4 or 1" chain and what it would do to my boat. Hauling that ugly anchor aboard would be a desecration to my beautiful yacht.

Now think about what 300 ft of 3/4 chain and that big ugly anchor are going to do if they smash into your bow and then what they are going to do to your trim once its aboard. Bow down is not a good look on a sail boat.Finally how much do you think 3/4 or 1" chain costs per foot.

Spade makes a fine anchor and I am not worked about it.

[Sailor 99]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLLBhIJbVFs

This qualifies as a total fail... Not sure what you tell the captain.

[Quilbilly]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

This thread was initiated by daily walks up and down the dock where Forfjord anchors are literally in my face at every slip.


So, my bigger question has become, "what do these boats have in common (if anything) in their anchoring setups? And how does it differ from what we do, and why?"

Here we talk about maximizing our ground tackle because our boat is our house, and to lose our house would be devastating. Seems to me that for most fisherman it would be at least as dire if they lost they're livelihood?

I have cruised a lot in SE Alaska (in fact Petersburg is one of our favorite stops) and wondered about anchors and anchoring as well. I think the biggest difference between the commercial folks and cruisers is that the commercial folks are willing to move out into conditions that I am not comfortable with if things change in the night. I have never see them backing down to set their anchors either. Typically they just back up a bit as they drop it, rarely do they seem to let out much scope either. And lots of times in the morning they are long gone. I have considered one of the small drum winches, https://lonestarmarine.com.au A lot of the small charter boats have them. It would fit in my anchor well.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

Nonsense! As one who has worked in the fishing industry in British Columbia (very much the same as Alaska) I can tell you that it would be very rare for a boat with one, two, or three crew members (90% of commercial fishboats) to stand anchor watch. Those guys, during fishing openings, work to physical exhaustion, then collapse in their bunks until it is time to get back on deck again. They will go many days without adequate sleep - and lose precious sleep time by standing an anchor watch? Not a chance!


However, most of them have been on boats most of their lives and are very sensitive to changes in the boat behavior - even while asleep. So if the anchor drags, they will very likely sense it and be up in an instant. Some of us are the same but many do not yet have sufficient experience overnighting on their boats to be so well attuned.

Very true. A ship, tug, dredge, whatever, will of course have a watch at all times. A fishing boat will generally not have an anchor watch. You do indeed get attuned to the boat's motion on anchor (or running, or trawling) and someone will usually wake up when something doesn't feel or sound right.

On a fishing boat, sleep is precious. Getting 4 hours sleep instead of three or even less, can make the difference between having an accident free trip, or not.

[Sailing Ohm]

Originally Posted by lituya1617

A smooth capstan - commonly called a "niggerhead" WITHOUT ANY RACIST INTENT WHATSOEVER just a nautical name from centuries past - is nearly ideal as a way to lift an anchor as well as a versatile line puller when needed. You really do not need much room for a smooth capstan and they are mounted low enough to avoid line capture. Driving one with hydraulics works great and putting a hydraulic pump on an engine is not difficult.

How isn’t that racist? Seriously dude. By continuously using an antiquated racial derived term you are doing nothing but continuing the negativity. Surely the company who makes this product does not Label and sell them as ‘niggerheads’. The common name is a capstan not a ‘niggerhead’ as you’ve stated. It might be the common name among racists but outside of them it surely wasn’t.
Get your head out of your ass and quit hiding behind the notion of historical correctness. You could have easily omitted that and simply called it a capstan. Why feel the need to perpetuate a racially charged label?

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Quilbilly

...I have considered one of the small drum winches, https://lonestarmarine.com.au ....

Thanks for that link. Not because I can't find drum winches, but because that particular company has an interesting column in their sizing table "Holding at Anchor". The values they provide range from 3T to 11T depending on winch size. This at least goes a long way to informing one behavior I've seen, which is loading up the winch and not using a snubber.

In the windlass world the common wisdom (?) is to not back down/set with the load on the windlass, and not leave the load on the windlass while at anchor. From the Lonestar information it seems they intend for the load to remain on the winch. I presume this is because of a nice, beefy shaft that is supported at both ends rather than the cantilever shaft we have on windlasses.

So, thanks, interesting data point.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Sailing Ohm

How isn’t that racist? Seriously dude. By continuously using an antiquated racial derived term you are doing nothing but continuing the negativity. Surely the company who makes this product does not Label and sell them as ‘niggerheads’. The common name is a capstan not a ‘niggerhead’ as you’ve stated. It might be the common name among racists but outside of them it surely wasn’t.
Get your head out of your ass and quit hiding behind the notion of historical correctness. You could have easily omitted that and simply called it a capstan. Why feel the need to perpetuate a racially charged label?

That is still a common term among gulf shrimpers of a certain generation. However you will never hear it in public fora of any sort because it will generally be taken to have a racist meaning by those not in the know. Why stir up bad feelings for no particular reason, when you could just as easily say "capstan" or "cathead"? BTW locals in Belize and elsewhere in the Caribbean basin often use that term to refer to a coral head close enough to the surface to strike with a boat. But you won't hear it on the radio or see it in print. For good reason.

I am sure you had only the best intentions but I, for one, find it inappropriate in a public forum or even in private discussion with strangers. It is a perfectly reasonable assumption for the general public to regard the word as racist, and in fact, most any yachtsman or fisherman born since about 1960. Maybe you didn't know this or never thought about it. By now, I am sure that you have. Please, (and I am not a liberal PC thug and I am not Black, either) refrain from needlessly using the "N" word here, in any form. It is somewhat grating and puts the membership in a bad light.

[motion30]

Originally Posted by Spindrift NH

Is it the case that these vessels keep engines running and crew on watch at the helm?

Exactly what I was thinking. Same with the large charter motor yachts