Do you Like your Rope Rode ?

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by Vasco

I kid that I wont anchor where I haven't been before. Familiarity with the bottom helps. But I have anchored in strange places as in an old disused canal on the Jersey side in NY City and found out later the bottom was fouled with old towing wire rope. If I had been smarter I would have known by all the old tugs tied up there. Or old mooring anchors and chain in Lake Worth and other harbours. Luckily I managed to get out of these jams. Luck also plays a part and vigilance when it starts to honk while at anchor.

Anchored in the Morris Canal? Must have been awhile back. All Marina now.

Regarding suspicious bottoms, sadly New York Harbor is a bit of a mess. Obviously much better than it was once, but still a bit of a mess. South of Liberty State Park on the Jersey side there is a small little anchorage called Caven Point, a great spot to park for people passing through BTW.

We anchored there for fun one day. On our way out the chain comes up covered in a thick black oily goo. Didn't really think it all through so this sludge is all over my hands for about ten minutes while my wife drives us out the channel and we get clear and she can get me a bucket.

By the time she does my hands are tingly, scary!

[RainDog]

Originally Posted by Delancey

I got nothing against all chain, but maybe a right question for me to be asking is what is the minimum amount of chain you can get away with in the Caribbean?

50 feet? 75? 100? I mean do you really trawl 300' of chain along the bottom looking for coral to not get chaffed by, or is most of that length free and clear of the bottom most of the time? At which point what makes all chain so great? Catenary? No, then what?

FWIW - I have followed these threads for years asking this very question. My desire has always been to carry enough chain that I have all chain out 99% of the time, and not a pound more. After reading dozens of these threads, it seems most people who claim they have done this had 100-150' of chain. 100 seems plenty for the Bahamas. 150' prop better for the Caribbean in general.

I figure I can travel most of the US East Coast, the Gulf Coast, Florida keys, and the Bahamas with 100' of chain and never get the rope wet.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by Delancey

Anchored in the Morris Canal? Must have been awhile back. All Marina now.

!

Yeah, they've ruined a not so good anchorage. Was in 1990 to 93 or so.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

in 99% of the situations.

No one drags in 99% of situations.

I am currently in 4 meters of water and have 40 meters of chain out as its 25 knots gusting 30 today.
And 90% of the time incurade winds is 20 knots or more. 20 meters of chain just aint enough.

And when the wind drops all chain does not let the boat move.... Rode does.
I was parke upwind from a Cat and every time the wind dropped he would float and crash into my $1,000 solar panels off my aft rail.

[JK n Smitty]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I was anchored inside Long Beach Harbor off the oil island in what I believed was mud during a 50 knot blow a few years ago using a rope rode to maybe 20 ft of chain on my Hunter 450. The splice was all chewed up when I brought up the anchor, thank goodness the wind only lasted 24 hours. I've always used 100% chain along with a substantial snubber ever since.

Why take any chances? Chain is cheap insurance.... one never really knows for sure what's down on the bottom.

A little bit of thread drift but could you provide more detail on what you use for the substantial snubber? Curious about materials and what you use to connect to the chain.

Thanks,

Jesse

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by JK n Smitty

A little bit of thread drift but could you provide more detail on what you use for the substantial snubber? Curious about materials and what you use to connect to the chain.

Thanks,

Jesse

I made a custom setup similar to the Ultra Anchor snubber pictured. Only, I used giant sized rubber dock shock absorbers and 22mm braided line. Both lines feed through the bow roller and anchor at each bow cleat. I also used the Ultra chain grab appropriate for 1/2 chain, a stainless steel chain hook will also work.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

No one drags in 99% of situations.

I am currently in 4 meters of water and have 40 meters of chain out as its 25 knots gusting 30 today.
And 90% of the time incurade winds is 20 knots or more. 20 meters of chain just aint enough.

And when the wind drops all chain does not let the boat move.... Rode does.
I was parke upwind from a Cat and every time the wind dropped he would float and crash into my $1,000 solar panels off my aft rail.

so, Mark, are you saying that you consider ONLY "300' of chain rode" is acceptable, (for everyone/every cruising boat)?

Or might you consider 299' acceptable? If so, what is your 'acceptable' minimum? And might that differ at all by boat (say centerboard vs deep fin) and cruising location?

------------------------------------
A bit off topic, but I am puzzled that you feel you need 10:1 scope in 25kts (gusting 30kts). Do you need a bigger or better anchor? Really I would think you should be fine on 4 or 5:1 in those conditions - Hawk certainly would be.

And fully off topic, and I don't want to distract from the above on topic questions . . . but . . . .Honestly . . . if your problem is someone (on rope rode) hitting you . . . then either you should move or he should!

[Kenomac]

I'm with Mark, it's better to be safe than sorry. I'd also lay down 10:1 and sleep well... no worries.

[Delancey]

I have to say I am a bit puzzled by the 10:1 as well. I mean, don't be a dick to your neighbors, use all chain. Great, I got it.

10:1? Crowded anchorage? Maybe if you shorten your all chain scope and you won't have a cat driving up your stern. Who's really the inconsiderate person in this scenario?

I'm not sayin, I'm just askin.

I mean really who is "right" in this situation? Is the guy in the cat, sitting on his boat and from his perspective, thinking "what's the deal with this guy? he's got all chain, why doesn't he shorten his scope? Can't he see this is a crowded anchorage?"

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I'm with Mark, it's better to be safe than sorry. I'd also lay down 10:1 and sleep well... no worries.

hmmmm . . . again . . . do you consider "300' of chain" to be the ONLY acceptable solution?

and regarding 10:1 . . . ok . . . everything else being equal, put it out . . . . but Mark is complaining both about "boats on rope taking up too much room" and another boat hitting him. In that case, Hawk would be perfectly happy on 4:1 and I would sleep perfectly well. The 'reality' of many anchorages today (including Caribbean ones) is that 10:1 just does not fit. Probably there is some detail/complexity of this situation I don't understand.

[Panope]

I got 160 ft. of chain with a bunch of nylon. Chain alone is long enough when wind is light. If wind increases and more scope is desired, then I get into the rope portion. Rope stays off bottom because of high wind. When wind dies, rope portion is retrieved to keep off bottom. Note: Our high wind events are generally steady in speed and direction and our water is deep.

Steve

[Delancey]

So, all chain 4:1 scope. 4m is about 13' and my bow is 7' off the water (not really) so 20' x 4 + 80' which makes the rode length about 82' 6"

I have a 30' long snubber, so I've got 52' 6" of chain out and 250' of chain in my locker? Just checking.

[RainDog]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I am currently in 4 meters of water and have 40 meters of chain out as its 25 knots gusting 30 today.
And 90% of the time incurade winds is 20 knots or more. 20 meters of chain just aint enough.

I was proposing 150' of chain. That is 45 meters. With that setup in your current situation, my rope still would not be wet.

[Delancey]

300' of chain. BIB. Is there a correlation between the two?

[RainDog]

Originally Posted by Panope

I got 160 ft. of chain with a bunch of nylon. Chain alone is long enough when wind is light. If wind increases and more scope is desired, then I get into the rope portion. Rope stays off bottom because of high wind. When wind dies, rope portion is retrieved to keep off bottom. Note: Our high wind events are generally steady in speed and direction and our water is deep.

Steve

If you are on the pacific, the equation is certainly different. On the southern US East Coast, Gulf Coast, Bahamas, and Florida Keys, I think you could cruise for 10 years and never anchor in over 15 feet of water. Perhaps I am wrong on that?